Thursday during the 1 p.m. hour, CNN’s “Newsroom,” this exchange took place between CNN reporter Ali Velshi andTime Magazine’s deputy international editor Bobby Ghosh:
VELSHI: The name Cordoba- some people are associating it with Muslim rule and bloody battles, when, in fact, Cordoba was one of the finest times in relations between the major religions.
GHOSH: Exactly right- in interfaith discourse-
VELSHI: Yeah-
GHOSH: And the great mosque of Cordoba that people are talking about and that Newt Gingrich was talking about- the man who built it, the Muslim prince who built it, bought it from a Christian group- paid money for it and bought it from a Christian group. And there was not a lot of alarm and anger raised then.

These statements are journalistic malpractice—ahistorical, whitewashed drivel—compounded by Ghosh’s ad hominem attack on Newt Gingrich.

Reinhart Dozy (1820-1883), the great Orientalist scholar and Islamophile (i.e., by any objective standard, notwithstanding Ghosh’s uncontrolled spraying of the ridiculous charge of “Islamophobia”), wrote a four-volume magnum opus (published in 1861 and translated into English by Francis Griffin Stokes in 1913), Histoire des Musselmans d’Espagne (A History of the Muslims in Spain). Pace Ghosh’s distorted reportage, here is Dozy’s historical account of the mid-8th century “conversion” of a Cordovan cathedral to a mosque:
All the churches in that city [Cordova] had been destroyed except the cathedral, dedicated to Saint Vincent, but the possession of this fane [church or temple] had been guaranteed by treaty. For several years the treaty was observed; but when the population of Cordova was increased by the arrival of Syrian Arabs [i.e., Muslims], the mosques did not provide sufficient accommodation for the newcomers, and the Syrians considered it would be well for them to adopt the plan which had been carried out at Damascus, Emesa [Homs], and other towns in their own country, of appropriating half of the cathedral and using it as a mosque. The [Muslim] Government having approved of the scheme, the Christians were compelled to hand over half of the edifice. This was clearly an act of spoliation, as well as an infraction of the treaty. Some years later, Abd-er Rahman I [i.e., the “Muslim prince” in Ghosh’s redacted narrative] requested the Christians to sell him the other half. This they firmly refused to do, pointing out that if they did so they would not possess a single place of worship. Abd-er Rahman, however, insisted, and a bargain was struck by which the Christians ceded their cathedral….

Indeed by the end of the eighth century, the brutal Muslim jihad conquest of North Africa and of Andalusia had imposed rigorous Maliki jurisprudence as the predominant school of Muslim law. Thus, as Evariste Lévi-Provençal (1894-1956)—the greatest modern scholar of Muslim Spain whose Histoire de l’Espagne Musulmane remains a defining work—observed three quarters of a century ago:
The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation.
For example, the contemporary scholar J.M. Safran discusses an early codification of the rules of the marketplace (where Muslims and non-Muslims would be most likely to interact), written by al-Kinani (d. 901), a student of the Cordovan jurist Ibn Habib (d. 853), “…known as the scholar of Spain par excellence,” who was also one of the most ardent proponents of Maliki doctrine in Muslim Spain:
…the problem arises of “the Jew or Christian who is discovered trying to belnd with the Muslims by not wearing the riqā [cloth patch, which might be required to have an emblem of an ape for a Jew, or a pig for a Christian] or zunnār [belt].” Kinani’s insistence that Jews and Christians wear the distinguishing piece of cloth or belt required of them is an instance of a legally defined sartorial differentiation being reconfirmed…His insistence may have had as much to do with concerns for ritual purity and food prohibitions as for the visible representation of social and political hierarchy, and it reinforced limits of intercommunal relations

Charles Emmanuel Dufourcq (1914-1978) , another important modern scholar of Muslim Spain, provides these concrete illustrations of the resulting religious and legal discriminations the subjected non-Muslim “dhimmis”suffered, and the accompanying incentives for them to convert to Islam:
A learned Muslim jurist of Hispanic Christian descent who lived around the year 1000, Ahmed ibn Said ibn Hazm (father of the famous mid-eleventh-century author Ibn Hazm) gives glimpses, in several of his juridical consultations, of how the freedom of the “infidels” was constantly at risk. Non-payment of the head-tax by a dhimmi made him liable to all the Islamic penalties for debtors who did not repay their creditors; the offender could be sold into slavery or even put to death. In addition, non-payment of the head-tax by one or several dhimmis – especially if it was fraudulent – allowed the Moslem authority, at its discretion, to put an end to the autonomy of the community to which the guilty party or parties belonged. Thus, from one day to the next, all the Christians [or Jews} in a city could lose their status as a protected people through the fault of just one of them. Everything could be called into question, including their personal liberty… Furthermore, non-payment of the legal tribute was not the only reason for abrogating the status of the “People of the Book”; another was “public outrage against the Islamic faith”, for example, leaving exposed, for Moslems to see, a cross or wine or even pigs.
…by converting [to Islam], one would no longer have to be confined to a given district, or be the victim of discriminatory measures or suffer humiliations…Furthermore, the entire Islamic law tended to favor conversions. When an “infidel” became a Moslem, he immediately benefited from a complete amnesty for all of his earlier crimes, even if he had been sentenced to the death penalty, even if it was for having insulted the Prophet or blasphemed against the Word of God: his conversion acquitted him of all his faults, of all his previous sins. A legal opinion given by a mufti from al-Andalus in the ninth century is very instructive: a Christian dhimmi kidnapped and violated a Moslem woman; when he was arrested and condemned to death, he immediately converted to Islam; he was automatically pardoned, while being constrained to marry the woman and to provide for her a dowry in keeping with her status. The mufti who was consulted about the affair, perhaps by a brother of the woman, found that the court decision was perfectly legal, but specified that if that convert did not become a Moslem in good faith and secretly remained a Christian, he should be flogged, slaughtered and crucified
Finally, expanding upon Professor Jane Gerber’s thesis on the “garish” myth of a Golden Age, the late Richard Fletcher (in his, “Moorish Spain”) offered a fair assessment of interfaith relationships in Muslim Spain, and his view of additional contemporary currents responsible for obfuscating that history:

The witness of those who lived through the horrors of the Berber conquest, of the Andalusian fitnah in the early eleventh century, of the Almoravid invasion—to mention only a few disruptive episodes—must give it [i.e., the roseate view of Muslim Spain] the lie. The simple and verifiable historical truth is that Moorish Spain was more often a land of turmoil than it was of tranquility…Tolerance? Ask the Jews of Granada who were massacred in 1066, or the Christians who were deported by the Almoravids to Morocco in 1126 (like the Moriscos five centuries later)…In the second half of the twentieth century a new agent of obfuscation makes its appearance: the guilt of the liberal conscience, which sees the evils of colonialism—assumed rather than demonstrated—foreshadowed in the Christian conquest of al-Andalus and the persecution of the Moriscos (but not, oddly, in the Moorish conquest and colonization). Stir the mix well together and issue it free to credulous academics and media persons throughout the western world. Then pour it generously over the truth…in the cultural conditions that prevail in the west today the past has to be marketed, and to be successfully marketed it has to be attractively packaged. Medieval Spain in a state of nature lacks wide appeal. Self-indulgent fantasies of glamour…do wonders for sharpening up its image. But Moorish Spain was not a tolerant and enlightened society even in its most cultivated epoch.






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80 Comments
0bama is either a muslim………..
or an apostate to islam………..
IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE WORD OR THE islamic PUNISHMENT FOR AN APOSTATE………
LOOK IT UP.
History defined by CNN & Time Magazine – when neither can accurately depict current events, it's quite a stretch to expect their history lessons to reflect truthfulness.
Right on the button Andrew. Velshi and Ghosh should be invited to an interview and their misrepresentation of the truth then exposed.
CNN, like all leftist liberals do this because they're trying to save their hides. CNNista's will point out…"the Jews, they're hiding over there….kill them, but don't kill me. The Christians, they're over there, kill them, but don't kill me." That is the reasoning why these feel good leftist keep denying and bending the truth. Islam then murdered out of the sheer thrill of it, as they do today, no reasoning behind killing innocent people, they do it because they want to. Stoning of people in 2010 in Iran and Afghanistan. 'Honor' killings of their own children every where in the World. It's not a religion of peace, love, and compassion, it's a religion of total control of man over other men.
"In the second half of the twentieth century a new agent of obfuscation makes its appearance: the guilt of the liberal conscience, which sees the evils of colonialism—assumed rather than demonstrated—foreshadowed in the Christian conquest of al-Andalus and the persecution of the Moriscos (but not, oddly, in the Moorish conquest and colonization)."
Thanks hippie scumbags.
Thank you Mr. Bostom!!! As a soon to be academically disgrased Historian I LOVE when the real story gets out. Can't blame CNN purely though, this myth, of Islam's enlightened rule and supposed scientific genus, is sold to the students in Higher education as truth. And Sadly, as in my case, when you call the so-called experts with the truth about Islam (and the Progressive/Socialist movement in America) you are greeted with "oh, your source is out of date read (place latest Progressive/Socialist darling of the moment here)", or oh you are just a racist or (place in victimized group here)phobe who does not understand moral relativism. So I again thank you for setting the historical record straight, it is way past the time to start setting history back on the truth and away from the politically inspired myth they call academic history.
Where does one go to get an unblemished view of history? There is so much I didn't learn or mis-read or mis-remember – and I took quite a number of history classes in College! Who can one trust? Certainly not the TV media. Certainly not the internet as a whole. I wonder.
The left is simply in denial. They cannot believe that the Moslems will increase in population until they have the numbers to start pushing sharia law, and that the Moslems /will/, not "might", /will/ enslave them, if not kill them, for being atheists.
For a religion of peace and love, its main religious text directs a lot of hate at those that do not submit to the God of Muhammad.
In 2008 Chairman O said "judge me by the people I surround myself with and you will see the truth of my vision for America."
Here's the (amended) short list of his buddies:
Frank Marshall Davis
Bill Ayers
Bernadine Dorhn
Frances Fox Piven
Andy Stern
Jeremiah Wright
Jim Wallis
George Soros
Robert Creamer
Cass Sunsteen
John Holdren
Richard Trumka
John Sweeney
Van Jones
Anita Dunn
Ron Bloom
Mark Lloyd
Is it any surprise that Chairman O is also surrounded by anti American media shills for radical Islam?
Find every word you can by these traitors and save them for future generations so we never forget who and what they are…
Never again.
I strongly suggest reading everything you can containing the object of your study's own written and spoken words.
You can locate most of what you need in newspaper archives, public libraries, government archives and even on the net, just be sure to fact check and scrutinize everything from the net…
FYI "factcheck.org" is owned and operated by George Soros and is heavily biased toward Chairman O's agenda.
If you are seeking "actual verifiable facts" I do not recommend Wikipedia, they tend to be very biased and written in most part by individual opinion makers and propagandists for the left…
Stick to the books by reputable independent historians, unblemished archives, older encyclopedias and actual written words of individual subjects and persons and you'll start to get to the bottom of things.
I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
– Kent Brockman
CNN is Kent Brockman
The left banks on the fact that very few people will fact check their lies for themselves. The other thing is the fact that 80 percent of academia is in the bag. Corrupt academics will confirm the leftist slant. The unknowing student has nowhere to go outside of his own curiosity and quest for knowledge. Most don't have the drive to dig for that knowledfe and after hearing it over and over from the Birkenstock/Goatee/Soul Patch/aging Boomer/ex-Hippie/tenure for life douchebags, they end up believing it. By the third semester of undergrad, the indoctrination has taken hold and the quest for knowledge gives way to a zombie walk through Marxist revision. The only hope of saving these Undead, is the cold, hard, stinging slap of reality. Some will never wake up.
Read. Read and read some more. Search out the older authors. Anything written in the 70's or later, is suspect.
Thomas Jefferson had to deal with Islamic extremist during his presidency. We should take a page from his playbook.
I'll give you a hint: It had nothing to do with tolerance or appeasement and had everything to do with sending the Marines!
They advocate abortion and euthanasia, and the Muslims are breeding like rats…….
this is an eye opening view of history, and i thank you for the lesson, do you think cnn will make some sort of correction on thier story? but, something that is very interesting; we heard the story of the palestinian who was in germany, and was helping to formulate the german way to deal with jews. it was noted, the jews had to wear a monkey, and the christians had to wear a pig. do you think this is where the nazi's came up with the jews having to wear the star of david on them?
Could be. Or could be that evil minds just think alike.
"What evil lurks in the heart of men?"
The truth of such atrocities pains a good man to the very depths of his being.
I want to believe that all men are endowed with a sense of what's right, what's fair and will thusly act in accord with whats right and fair but stories like this make me wonder.
Perhaps history is whitewashed to avoid the pain good people would feel: a blissful existence. Then their ignorance is exploited so that we have to relive history.
God save us.
What part of:
We assert that Islam is not a religion of peace, but quite the contrary.
We affirm that Islam is a false religion.
We conclude that Islam is responsible for rampant corruption, widespread misrule, implausible tyranny, mindless terrorism, unrelenting violence and pervasive social injustice in the Muslim world.
do people not understand?
http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm
This is like Obama claiming the Muslims of Cordoba as being beacons of tolerance during the Inquisition, despite the fact that there were no Muslims in Cordoba at the time of the Inquisition.
Weren't these people known as the Moops?
Islam's "achievements" in science and learning have more to do with their place in the world, sitting astride the ancient trade route between Rome in the west and India and China in the east, and the fact they conquered the wealthier, more urban and literate area of the world.
Islam received many inventions of Hindu and Sinitic origin, from paper to numerals to gunpowder. They also had at their disposal the learned Christians and Zoroastrians of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires, as well as famous centers of classical learning such as Alexandria and Antioch.
To be fair, there were some great Islamic scholars, philosophers and scientists, but they existed and thrived despite Islam, not because of it.
Andrew, I hope you're writing a book on Islamic Spain to correct the record; like your works on jihad and Antisemitism, I'm sure it would be a valuable reference work for fighting Islamic propaganda and the dhimmi tools who buy into it.
I keep hoping Ronald Reagan will be cloned. But I'll settle for Charles Martel.
Yeah but history books cost money. I can buy TIme for $1 a shot and then get lots of glee by watching my bird take a dump on it. I know, I need to get out more.
CNN, what a joke
Up your a$$ they wish to blow smoke
Can't cover the news worth a damn
Now going back centuries, what a sham
This may cause their last 3 readers to croak
I missed that. For real, he did say that?
Well, I suppose any hidden Moslems (Moroscos) would be /very/ tolerant. To be otherwise would mean being tied to a stake and burned.
Yeah, it was in his Cairo speech if I remember correctly. He made up a whole pile of nonsense about various, nonexistent Islamic "accomplishments" in a general spate of multicultural ass-kissing. For instance, he claimed Islam helped spark the renaissance. That could of been one the greatest uses of irony by a president ever, if he hadn't meant it sincerely.
So yes, Islam did "help" spark the renaissance. They helped spark it by going on a murderous rampage through the Anatolian and Greek remains of the Byzantine Empire in the 15th century, spurring a huge exodus of Greek scholars, philosophers and scientists to Italy and the West, thereby igniting the Renaissance.
Keep your old history books, Its clear why the NAZIs burned books and Michelle wants to rewrite American history. I have a Garraty 1966 and it's quite accurate.
If you have an old history book written by Garraty in the 60s, they were the best, before the revisionists took hold.
Yep, it's also the start of the history book rewriting began. Big plans for progressive prisons.
Think George Orwell and Newspeak.
It is sad to note that our clueless leaders and MSM have created a pigsty of stinking lies to pontificate that the constitutional freedom of religion allows the Muslims to build the GZM, and have joined Islam in a lecture of liars with this canard.
The truth of the matter is that Islam has never practiced freedom of religion, and this mosque will serve as yet another symbol of Islamic bigotry, domination and intolerence. Islam actively promotes and supports the commandments and practices of jihad to subjugate and destroy all other faiths by all means necessary. The murdering jihadists who destroyed the Twin Towers are honored and celebrated as martyrs of this homicidal religion. Since jihad is a legititmate tenet of their faith, the Muslims are taught to believe that their freedom of religion allows their followers to continue waging war against all nonbelievers.
Only the most absolute peversion of logic can lead us to believe our Founding Fathers intended that this murderous religion be protected by our constitution.
More proof that Islam is not a religion, but a battle plan for world domination.. They have no rights under religious freedoms in the USA!
go to google books, much good information is in the older books such as "A History of the Middle Ages by Dr. Leonhard Schmitz"
Reliance of the Traveller o8.2.
O8.1
When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.
O8.2
In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (A: or his representive) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed.
I thought it was the moors.
I posted a couple days ago but drew no response. Again: Do you think the Crusaders knew something we are just now discovering?
If you are looking for American history, your books need to be written before 1900.
This is the problem with leftists they lack their own strong faith or misidentify it when they do have it. They lose the capability of thinking that anyone else could actually have so much faith that they would do such things as Islam promises to those who think differently.
Give these issues all the attention they deserve………. but don't lose sight of November. That will be step one in ending all this nonsense.
Accept the Mark and the one world government will tolerate you. Refuse and be persecuted untill death. We are in an updated version of that old story. Cordoba then, U S now.
Oh, noooooo, it's MOOPS.
Instead of all this "he said, she said" BS that no one on either side of this issue believes, why doesn't some news program convene a panel of eminent Spanish Historians, such as the top Spanish history professors from the top Spanish universities, along with a similar bunch from the US and let them discuss what the Cordoba Mosque in Cordoba, Spain is all about?
Such a discussion might be an eye-opener for those who try to pass off this attempt to plant the flag of Allah on the site of one of the radical Islamic world's happiest occasions as some innocuous community center.
Glenn Beck! Do you or your staffers read these blogs?
Consider this proposal, please.
Islam is a death cult.
Kristine, it is good to see a student that didn't buy into the P.C. propaganda. It is going to be a long road back to discredit and get these Progressive/Socialists out of our education system. They have a huge head start, but I believe the internet may just be the advantage we need.
Don't leave out Valerie Jarrett
I love reading old books ,the truth will set you free
Islam is NOT a religion any more than is Satanism or Nazism! These are NOT people, they are barbaric, cowardly ANIMALS! take a look at the picture of Muslim animals preparing to stone a helpless woman…
Cowards… http://usataxpayer.org/Images/stoning.jpg
Quit trying to pass this off as Religious Freedom or a Constitutional issue, and don't come off with any malarkey about "peaceful Muslims." When is the last time you heard ANY Muslim step up and denounce these cowardly acts?
The Quran states that IT IS THE DUTY OF EVERY MUSLIM TO INSTITUTE MANDATORY, WORLD-WIDE SHARIA LAW. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PEACEFUL MUSLIM, the Quran does not allow it.
Hindu Nurse Gang-Raped by Muslims…
Bombs Strapped to mentally Impaired Women…
54 Year Old Christian Father of Three Murdered…
5 Year Old Children Used to Plant Taliban Bombs…
Muslim Mob Kills Christian Wife and Four Children…
Fundamentalists Behead Girls School Headmaster in Afghanistan…
…All links are here… http://usataxpayer.org/?002583212
Good point!
??? Oh, yeah, LibertyWriter! The Crusaders went to the Holy Land to help fight DEFENSIVE battles. They were there to protect Christian lands under attack by the Muslims, and to take back Christian areas that had fallen to the Islamic sword. Islam, however, considers anything "theirs" once they've taken it, however briefly, even if it had been restored to original occupants who had been there since pre-historic times.
In the 15th or 16th Century, an Islamic attack was stopped at the Gates of Vienna, and the Muslim aggressors were soundly defeated. The month and day of that battle was September 11. In late September or October, 2001 Osama bin Ladin released an audio-tape about the 9/11/2001 attack on the US; in that taped message, he referenced that 15th/16th century battle at the Gates of Vienna, implying our 9/11 was some kind of "payback" for the Islamic defeat nearly 500 years ago and a couple of hundred years before we even had a national existence.
These are very determined, very dangerous and deadly people — and they REALLY know how to carry a grudge.
Ah, yes, the Barbary pirates and the Shore of Tripoli, from whence our Marines became known as "leathernecks." That was from the neck-wear fashioned from leather, to protect the Marines from having their heads go in an opposite direction from their torsos. Those Islamicists fight dirty.
I think it's doubtful that CNN will run a correction, or even informally admit their coverage was dishonest.
For background on the Muslim Brotherhood and collaboration with Nazi Germany — and there was a lot of it, including a Brotherhood founder known as "Hitler's Mufti" who met with Adolph Eichmann in Jerusulem and received financing from Himmler through the Dresden Bank to initiate a training program to prepare Muslims to help 'carry the 3rd Reich into the 21st century' — search "al banna nazi," "Amin al Husseini" and check the site, http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.org (could be "com" but I think it's "org").
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."
~ Mark Twain
And sadly, Bernard Lewis, one of the best Arab/Islamic historians perpetuates some of the myths of enlightened Islamic rule. http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=4127
Thanks. We need to OUTLAW "politically correct" Politics is politics plain and simple. When we ignore history we cover our eyes with our hands. Islam knows what it is about–destroy the people of the Book. Why? Because their god is the antithesis of Jehovah, the Father of the Jews and the Father of Christ.
Before or after Mohammed? Remember, he invented islam out of whole cloth and then they backdated everything. Just asking?
well done sir, foreshadowing in the Simpsons, i love it
If they did, it took them a long while to learn it. Over 460 years before they finally reacted to arselifter aggression.
You really should read some about Islam and their prophet Mohammad from who the religion sprang lived about 675ad to 640AD. His revelations from the dictations from the angel Gabriel form the Koran. His following took hold with the Medina's (Arabs) and he convinced them to move on Christian Mecca-his home town. After conquering them he beheaded 6 to 800 citizens who would not convert to his form of religion.
Jews are apes and Christians are pigs, beheading, mal treatment of women, pedophilia (his 4th wife was 6 when they married he was 57 they consummated at her age of 9, and a statist society where you get you instruction from Imam’s not God-were all set up by Mohammad.
Funny- Gabriel’s message was nothing like this…it was a basic cut and paste from Christianity-guess Mohammad's "transcription skills were not to good!"
Eh…I'm lazy.
But thanks anyway.
Dumb article. If you want to kill CNN don't mention them – they have to have notoriety to survive. Talk about the issue, but leave any mention of CNN or their correspondents out of the article. By mentioning their names you give them power and recognition. By ignoring them you deprive them of the life they need to survive.
STOP DOING THIS! PRETEND CNN, HLN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, HUFFPO AND ALL THE REST DON'T EXIST – TALK ISSUE NOT OUTLET AND THEY WILL LOSE!!! THEY CAN ONLY SURVIVE BY VIRTUE OF YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO THEM!!!
Let this be taught in our schools instead of the current view of Islam as a peaceful religion that had a gloriously enlightened regime during this period, while Christianity is taught as being oppressive and destructive. The truth shall set you free.
I would strongly suggest that you simply take an intensive course in human nature. Our nature (good/evil) is now as it was then…Then you separate the wheat from the chaff (so to speak) Then, depending on your personal morals/values, you can align yourself to the 'truth' that best fits! Even if you were present at most of the historical events since man emerged from caves, your memories (and writings) would probably differ from others' perspective at that point in time!? Since most people (way back then) were illiterate, only the perspective as viewed by those capable of writing is all that we now see.To me, reviews of historical events are necesssary, but somewhat moot..The details of an event will never be clear, but, a general understanding of the 'human' condition during that historical point in time will surely shed some light on what probably happened, and ultimately happen again!!!
Come to think of it, I have noticed that among liberals. They want to debate and think every one else is debating. They do not "own" the position they take, and so are not responsible for the results of their political action.
They are merely tourists in this reality. Nothing is going to happen to them, everything is scenary, made of styrofoam and paper meche.
The left is counting on the way that most people haven't been taught the facts of history but have been taught to trust the talking heads, welcome to the world that the left has made for us to live in .
No, I'd say all those were structured belief systems, and therefore religions, that spilled over into other areas of life. The 1stA is not about ignoring religions, it is about the fedgov establishing a "state religion".
YW. According to Serge Trifkovic's "The Sword of the Prophet: Islam history, theology, impact on the world" ("The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam"), their "Allah" is derived from a pagan moon god, "al-ilah," the chief among all gods; and Mohammad retained and "mixed in" some earlier, pagan beliefs to attract and hold followers to his religion (the crescent symbol appears frequently in pre-Islamic archaeological artifacts throughout Arabia). However, Middle East expert Daniel Pipes has stated that "Allah" is the Arabic name for (our same, Jehovah) God.
Moderate Muslims claim high regard for "the People of the Book;" a sentiment clearly not shared by Islamists ('radicalized' Muslims).
I will have to check out Daniel Pipes, but in the mean time I see that you (I suppose) placed "our same, Jehovah" in parenthesis. By this do you mean that Mr. Pipes says, " 'Allah' is the Arabic name for God?" And what is in parenthesis is you adding that it must mean Jehovah? For if that is so, you must understand that Jehovah is the name of God. Belial, el, adonai, elohim among others are terms signifying a god. When God gave His name as Jehovah, He was identifying Himself as having personhood.
I maybe "Great", but my name is Mike. I assure you, I know Jehovah and allah is not Him.
Moderate muslims are simply radicalized muslims that havent yet been prevailed upon by their iman to join the jihad. If they refuse, by shariah, they can be beheaded.
Satanism, Nazism, Islam, call them what you like. When they "spill over" and start affecting others, such as Nazism and now Islam, they need to be set straight.
The World tried to appease the Nazis until it took a World war to set them straight. The USA and allies bombed them to dust, cleaned out the vermin, and then aided their recovery. Now most of the Nazis are gone and Germany is a reasonably good neighbor. Of course that was WWII, an age when Americans were tough and proud of being ONE NATION UNDER GOD, not a bunch of progressive, politically correct, whiney babies!
I don't see a lot of difference with the Muslims and Islam.
Remember the guy who wouldn't take the flag down? http://usataxpayer.org/htm/vids.asp?A=82201116
That part I certainly agree with. Not all religions (or faith systems) are good. Many need to be exterminated, with prejudice.
Sorry, Mike, I was trying to add clarity, that Muslims use the Arabic word "Allah" to mean what we use "Jehovah" and "God" to say, but that parenthesis thing was just confusing. Yes, Pipes seemed to be saying that Muslims use the word "Allah" to mean God – they are monotheists, so they (apparently) agree with us that there is One True God; but like you, I have a big problem with their description of Him. Some of their mullahs even insist that He is "unknowable," pretty much stating that He makes up His rules as events occur, with no consistency, like whims of the moment. I don't know whether that's true of "Allah," but I'm certain it is not true of God.
Daniel Pipes is a frequent target of CAIR lawsuits and complaints, and what can only be viewed as slander from numerous Academia purveyors of Islamic revisionism (the "Islamic Studies" bunch from several colleges and universities). His web site is http://www.danielpipes.org.
I'm inclined to agree on that, even though I'm aware of a large and growing number who do denounce the radicalized segment. I'm not certain if a large part of the problem is that our political leaders simply don't know or understand the difference, and they seem to single out the "stealth jihadists" (leaders of CAIR and other organizations) as spokesmen for all Muslims, even though they represent just the radical 'wing.' There's so much deliberate deception, it's almost impossible to know the wheat from the chaff.
As I understand islamic theology, allah is a petulant, unpredictable deity. He provides a code of behavior but does not provide a means of salvation. One could live a perfect muslim life and on a whim allah could let you in or keep you out. The most certain way to go to heaven is by martyrdom as you 'take out" an infidel. Nice religion.
Frankly, I dont know how islam can be redeemed as an "acceptable" religion without drastically altering the koran. Maybe the 12th iman when he comes will tell the muslims how wrong they have been.
Yes, frankly I don't understand Islamic theology
It has clearly "borrowed" from Judaism and Christianity, yet tries to condemn both while claiming their heritage. According to Trifkovic ("The Sword of the Prophet"), Mohammad attempted to recruit both Jews and Christians as followers in the early days and, upon their refusal(s) to accept his prophecies as divine, became a little testy.
And, many of his prophecies are a little hard to buy into, including "prophecy sessions" or meditations or whatever, that provided him with Allah's instructions for settling arguments between his wives.
I wish I was a better scholar. Most of us know the Biblical story of Isaac and Ishmael. Mohamed six hundred years after Christ and however many years after Gen 21:12, declared falsely that Ishmael is the heir. Mohamed declares that Jehovah is a liar.
Pagans (those who substitute any other than Jehovah as God) often worship rocks, also trees.
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
(Deuteronomy 4:28 KJV)
Prior to 9/11, when my awareness of Islamicism and jihadists was pretty much limited to news reports about the other side of the world, I used to crack wise about the "sibling rivalry being carried to extremes." Not so funny when I realized they've been looking at us with conquest in mind. I was not aware that Mohammed said Ishmael is the (Abraham's) heir? But a lot of their beliefs seem to defy logic.
Mohammed's personal bio is interesting: Very bad beginning – his father died before his birth, mother died when he was 3-years-old. An uncle put him to work on a camel caravan, sort of a traveling peddler, until he was hired by a wealthy, much older widow who he married. He was then belittled by peers (not a manly thing to do in a macho culture). After gaining wealth, influence and some knowledge, he sure showed them!
Yes, the pre-Muslim group recruited by Mohammed as his first followers had a pagan ritual or rite that had to do with some particular black rock, believed to have been 'sent down by Zeus' and to 'house the gods' (probably a meteorite). Part of the pagan ritual required that they run around the rock seven times, kiss it, then run a mile to a "dry well of Wadi Mina to throw stones at the devil." This was at Mecca, a place of pagan pilgrimage from ancient times. Some of this pre-Islamic paganism is evident, I think, in contemporary Islamic theology — recall some of Mahmoud Amadinijade's rants about the dwelling place of the 12th Imam, or the place where he's expected to show up? Interesting stuff.
Real Americans have tried for years to make a religion centered around "weed". Uncle Scam has ALWAYS arrested them for their "religious" beliefs, so there is no real reason that we need to give these terrorists a free pass to murder our children.
Uncle Scam has sentenced our children and grandchildren to poverty, we cannot let them sentence them to mass murder, amputations, hangings, and rape…
Some how real Americans, not politically correct cowards who like to pass the buck, need to get these animals back to their "pen",,, in a country other then ours!
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