On Tuesday, seven bullets believed to have been fired from one or more AK-47s from across the border hit the El Paso City Hall. It was big news in the Texas border town right across the river from Juarez, Mexico, but it earned a collective yawn from the national MSM. What do the East Coast news gods care about us here in Texas anyway?
Folks in El Paso, though, were somewhat offended. The El Paso Times reported:
EL PASO — Several gunshots apparently fired from Juárez hit El Paso City Hall on Tuesday afternoon. No one was hurt, but nerves were rattled at City Hall in what is thought to be the first cross-border gunfire during a drug war that has engulfed Juárez since 2008. El Paso police spokesman Darrel Petry said investigators do not think City Hall was intentionally targeted but rather was struck by stray shots. “It does appear the rounds may have come from an incident in Juárez,” Petry said.
El Paso NBC NewsChannel9 aired a video showing just how close the City Hall is to the site of the shoot out in Mexico. ABC7 interviewed El Paso residents who live near City Hall. And, KFOX14 got a shot – a camera shot that is – of the circling Blackhawk mentioned below in the El Paso Times.
Authorities said a Mexican federal police officer was killed during an attack by gunmen near a Smart supermarket on Norzagaray boulevard. Chihuahua state police identified the dead man as Domingo Hernández Espinoza and said that two other people were wounded. Investigators found 40 bullet casings from an AK-47 and other firearms.
A Mexican federal police Blackhawk helicopter and a smaller helicopter were flying in circles over west Juárez after that shooting. A Border Patrol helicopter was later flying on the U.S. side.
Is this the first time a Texas city has taken incoming fire from across the border? Nope.
Similar cross-border shootings have occurred in other cities. Last September, the University of Texas at Brownsville was closed for a weekend after a building and a parked car on campus were hit by bullets fired during a shootout across the border in Matamoros, Mexico.
Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott sent President Barack Obama this letter in response to the incident.
Dear Mr. President,
Deadly violence from drug cartels and transnational gangs in Mexico is knocking on the United States’ door with ever increasing frequency.
Yesterday, gunfire from the cartels pierced that threshold and struck City Hall in El Paso. Fortunately no one was injured or killed. But that good fortune was not the result of effective border control – it was mere luck that the bullets struck buildings rather than bodies.
Luck and good fortune are not effective border enforcement policies. The shocking reality of cross border gunfire proves the cold reality: American lives are at risk. As the attached news article notes: “More than 1,300 people have been murdered in Juárez this year as a war continues relentlessly between the Juárez and Sinaloa drug cartels.” Americans must be protected as this deadly war bulges at our border.
Law enforcement officials with the Texas Department of Public Safety and your own U.S. Customs and Border Protection will reveal the hard truth. Our state is under constant assault from illegal activity threatening a porous border.
The time for talk has passed. The time for action is now. The need is urgent. Each day that passes increases the likelihood that an American life will be lost because of the federal government’s failure to secure the border.
This threat demands immediate and effective action by your Administration to secure our border. As the Attorney General of Texas, I urge you to make border security your top priority so that no more innocent lives are lost to border violence.
Given the rapid White House response to the Gulf oil spill, Attorney General Abbott should hear back from Washington by, say, Labor Day.
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I have a good idea.
The good folks in El Paso need to return fire. Only they don't need to fire aimlessly at buildings in Juarez. They need to start sniping at pedestrians, wearing uniforms. That would put the fear of Tejas back in Mexico.
Three words.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO!
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Vince Humphreys. Vince Humphreys said: via @BigJournalism El Paso City Hall Takes Cross-border Fire, MSM Yawns http://bit.ly/bW32Sm #tcot [...]
These are exciting times we live in.
Every wave of Leftism needs to result in innocent blood spilled – sometimes to the tune of millions of people at a shot – before it is rightfully shoved back into its box and locked tight (for a while…then rinse and repeat).
I am afraid that is what it is going to take. We need to, essentially, have a Greek-style meltdown, coupled with a thug centralized government, exorbitant taxes, assaults on freedom, threats to sovereignty, and a whole lot more – before people get the message that our country is not a toy – not some university social study – and that hard-working, freedom-loving people have been, currently are, and always will be IN CHARGE. It's like the adults are giving the kids some latitude because, hey, it's a Sunday – a time for levity and fun. Monday morning is coming, soon, folks. That's the part where all the grown-ups that *matter* roll up their sleeves and work – and the kiddies relegate themselves to being seen, not heard, once again.
Don't mess with Texas.
"What do the East Coast news gods care…".
The answer is obvious. This report doesn't fit with the pre-decided upon narative from the boys at JournoList. Move along. Nothing to see here…..
Play time is over. Set up gun towers with Dillon Aero M134 Gatling guns aimed across the border. Let it be know that any building or vehicle that gunfire towards the United States comes from will be decimated. Then follow through on it.
I would volunteer to man a gun tower, for free.
They would have to guarantee me an unlimited supply of ammo.
Oh, they remember it all right.
It was the last time they taught us filthy, land-stealing, gringos a lesson – a lesson they are eager to repeat at the post-graduate level with the help of MEChA and similar groups, and the complicity of the Obama regime.
What the Mexicans need to be reminded of are San Jacinto, Chapultepec, Veracruz, and Ambos Nogales.
[The United States Constitution defines impeachment at the federal level and limits impeachment to "The President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States" whom may be impeached and removed for the reasons of "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." ]
Keep this handy folks. We wouldn't need towers and guns on the southern border if our elected officials DID THEIR JOBS.
They need to remember Pancho Villa, and then go try to find his skull.
That will not happen.
Guaranteed, they WILL NOT do their jobs.
Imagine if this was LA RAZA headquarters in Phoenix.
Mexico is a lot more violent then it used to be because for decades Mexicans figured drugs were the US's problem, but nowadays they realize they are everyone's problem. Which isn't to say that there isn't a lot of drug fueled corruption in the government, but the government is fighting a very intense war on drugs, one that has claimed the lives of a lot of good people (cops and politicians who refused to close their eyes to the drug problem, civilians who either resisted the drug lords or were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time) and will claim countless more before it is over.
That being said, effective security on the border would not only make America safer, it would help Latin America by making life tougher for drug lords.
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Gee, didn't the pres just say this morning our borders can't be secured?
Now that would be a glorious sight.
RETURN FIRE!!!!!!!
Have my guns, anyone in the area want to host a bunch of bloody thirsty militia members to protect the boarder? from the drug gangs? Now where did I put that rocket launcher……
Anyone that thinks I am serious get real (stupid libtard), and those that want help call on me because the government are helping the drug cartels by NOT CLOSING THE BORDER~!
Used to be, when a country was fired upon, war was declared. Maybe one of the many nations with which we've signed a mutual aggression and defense treaty will come to our aid, because our own government sure isn't going to do anything about it.
“Farmer with a Q-Beam, rancher with a carbine, shoot, shoot, shooting wetbacks on the border……” Mike Church show band
[...] EL PASO — Several gunshots apparently fired from Juárez hit El Paso City Hall on Tuesday afternoon. No one was hurt, but nerves were rattled at City Hall in what is thought to be the first cross-border gunfire during a drug war that has … … Here is the original post: » El Paso City Hall Takes Cross-border Fire, MSM Yawns – Big … [...]
My preference would be shoulder fired missiles if you please
I've got this really cool ashtray….
An AK-47 has a maximum range of 800 meters, or 2684 feet. If the shots were fired from the store area, it would land at the base of the building. The trees, fence, and wires would have to stay out of the way. Multiple bullets at that range would either require multiple weapons aimed at the exact same spot, or one weapon at closer range to make hitting the City Hall building possible. At 800 meters, the maximum range (not maximum effective range, which is 400 meters), the weapon would have to be aimed exactly at the building and at maximum elevation to reach the base of the building. The bullets fired would experience shifts from wind, heat, humidity, and human error. So, from the National Weather Service for 29 June 2010, it reports humidity at 89 percent in the morning to 30 percent in the evening around 5pm. High humidity for that area, being desert. Temperature high was 88, which is a bit cool for this time of year. Wind was from 21mph gusting up to 28 mph from the east. So what this tells me is that it was a high humidity shot, with cross winds that even an expert marksman would be upset with. Given a rifle that is great up close, but looses its accuracy after 400 meters, the shot would have to be much closer to hit the side of the building. Remember from the base of the building to the point where the shots "originated" is at the maximum capability for this rifle. If it hit the side of the building, the shot would have to be closer, a lot closer. Given the type of rifle, weather conditions, line of sight to the City Hall building, thugs reportedly firing the weapon, and the building location in contrast to the border, there are only a few options as to how this could have been done. First, the shooter was closer than the reported distance, which would put him/her on the American side of the border. Second, they did shoot from the spot listed, then it would have to be from a modified rifle, higher elevation, or on purpose. Third, with the weather conditions of a cross wind of 21mph, and gusting to 28mph from the east, the shot would have to travel approximately 1/10th times further than straight line distance to reach the building which puts it at approximately 725 meters. This is much closer, and still only puts the rounds fired at the base of the building. The building would have to be in the line of sight to hit it. This narrows the possibilities dramatically. Contrary to Hollywoods dreams of super heros, bullets can not be curved around objects. Thanks, but if you can, get some for our boys in the Stan so they can hit their targets from their bunks. So, it had to be aimed. This narrows the possibility of "random" shots down to near zero possibility from that distance. The firer of the rifle would have to have shot multiple times at the same target, missed, and continued to fire for the rounds to travel 800 meters, in a stiff cross wind, with line of sight, at high humidity, and just so happen to get a up draft somewhere along the way to carry it an extra hundred or so meters to hit the SIDE of the building. Sorry for the long explanation, but had to fill in the blanks for you non rifle, 2nd amendment utilizing, civilian types who love America, but support the country in another way. For you liberal knuckle heads out there, we are clinging to our guns, and apparently so is the individual who shot at the City Hall building, because there is no way that this was an "accident". This was intentional, and anyone with some thought will understand the impossibility of this shot coming from anywhere but inside our own country. Please, someone tell me all of what I have written here is just fantasy, and I will be able to sleep better with a pound of coke under my pillow.
You can't straddle the fence Texas…… You can defend your right to a secure border or give it up.
You are so right. Time for missiles. Maybe Israel has a few they can spare.
We are being invaded from the south…….it is time for Europe and south Korea to send troops to help defend us. It is only fair..
They're only shooting at things American citizens won't shoot at. Duh.
Oh one other thing………. all those drug smugglers……………………..it' s your kids that are becomming addicted not mine. SO truth be told I guess I don't care if you secure the border or not.
Thank you for this absolutely great scientific explanation. I learn so much from all the really knowleadgeable people that post on the BigGov sites. If what you say is exact science, then those meheecans are firing on us from within our borders. Except this lame, corrupt federal government won't do a damn thing about it.
Where is Gov Perry on all this? Time to ask him.
it is possible that rounds were 'tossed off'- higher angle of trajectory and the bullets were pretty much spent. Given that particular scenario add 200 meters. Your post is well done, and small arms fire from Mexico hitting the El Paso city hall seems a stretch. The 7.62×39 round is not a long range item, and it does,like the 5.56 NATO open up and tumble. A .308 could travel the 1500 or so meters.
But either way, this story seems a bit hysterical…
I have a bad feeling about July 4th celebrations. Especially in those border states. Be safe and stay vigilant.
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It is time for Americans to make a stand and save our nation. It is past time.
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they'd probably blame Tea Partiers…….
welllll……..at least HE can't secure them. HE can't respond to the biggest environmental disaster in the US. HE can't fix unemployment.
HE CAN'T THROW A PISS IN A BOOT!
Buyer's remorse much?
November will send THAT message in terms even PRESIDENT "CAN'T DO SQUAT" will understand.
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BS!!! Max effective range and max range are 2 different things. A .22 LR is dangerous up to a mile or more. A 7.62 x 39 has a max range of a great deal more. Max effective range with a scope is in the neighbor hood of 1300 m, but that just means hitting what you are aiming at. The bullet will carry much further than that until it runs out of steam.
Even with the "extra "toss off" angle taken into account, the max range is still at 800 meters. Max is max. Only a southern wind would carry it further. Easterly wind would cause it to slow, especially at a rate of 21mph. Like flicking my cigarette butt out of my car window; it will travel in the direction I pushed it, but it will also travel in the direction of the wind, thus slowing it's rate dramatically.
Thanks for the discussion. Glad to know someone else is thinking about this too.
Nothing exact, just good times in the military with experience in long shots. Only thing exact is when you are on the ground aiming. This is just too coincidental to be an accident. Rule #1, there are no coincidences. Rule #2, when in doubt refer to Rule #1.
Nobama will have a Corona sit down with the gunmen and talk.
It's time to "Remember the Alamo" and start kicking some Mexican @ss!
Maybe it's time to add spent ammunition to our south of the boarder exports.
@obstin8 I think your on the right track however I think this is entirely plausible. The max range of a 7.62×39 is 1800 m. Max Effective range 800m. When one thinks of the ballistics of these shots it might be more effective to think of it in terms of artillery versus standard rifle ballistics. There is going to need to be a major inclination for the round to make it the 900 meters from the S-mart to the city hall. What is not known is the spread. The building looks to be at least 10 stories and just as wide. Therefore a target of @ 120ft. x 120 ft. (14,400 ft^2) is much more probable to hit versus a single person (4 ft^2) at that distance.
I do think this was deliberate on the part of the narcos. I also think return fire is warranted with prejudice.
I agree with your max range vs. max effective range. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm AK 47 max effective range is 400 meters, max sighting range is 800 meters. Again, modified is a different deal. This weapon was developed for the Soviets to keep the rounds from passing through a target. It provides knock down power. Long range will not accomplish this, so it was intentionally developed that way. The AKM and the AK 74 have different ballistics. The news reports it came from an AK 47. Going off what the MSM is reporting. Different weapon, different results. Carry over distance would be like the truth on a liberal, with the building; they wouldn't notice.
Not to worry. The Mexicans are just shooting things that Americans won't shoot.
Isn't failure to secure our borders an impeachable offense? Is this not one of the very few jobs that the Government actually has????
What would Israel do?
siting my source: http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource
@ 500 m the 7.62×39 still is traveling at 340m/s . While not very fast in terms of a comparable .30-06 or .308 round (closer to .30-30) it still has enough energy to make a 900m shot if fired from a high angle. Not very accurate and probably wouldn't have too much impact energy left. However to me still plausible.
Opponents of Arizona's new law cracking down on illegal immigrants are trying to put pressure on baseball commissioner Bud Selig to move next year's All-Star Game from Phoenix, and they're doing it by protesting the state's major league team, the Diamondbacks.
The mexicans are following the Diamondbacks from ballpark to ballpark, from Dodger Stadium to Fenway Park, accusing the team's management of supporting the Arizona Republican Party, which is responsible for the bill.
"The Diamondbacks represent Arizona, and Arizona is our key target," Favianna Rodriguez, a lead organizer with the activist group Presente.
. "When we deliver an economic blow to Arizona, it really sends a message that Americans will not tolerate laws like this."
Meaning they intend on taking over the USA and you have no balls to stop them as they saw how easy it was for the blacks to carry sticks and chase you away from the voting booths
Baseball – As American as half the players being wetbacks and tacos replacing apple pie.
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They were put in place SPECIFICALLY not to do their jobs.
Failure itself isn't impeachable. If it were Jimmy Carter would have been hung in 1980.
Shoot back! Hire some retired military snipers – place them strategically on top of building and stop this nonsense. There – I just created more jobs than Blammer.
Only after he declares that the building "acted stupidly" by getting in the way of the bullets.
Vaiinamoinen, don't forget. The bullets weren't intended to hit US soil. The gunmen were just poor shots. It was an accident. How do you say "oops" in Spanish?
Dear obstin8, Now if you could just come on down here to Tucson I might feel a little safer at night. And of course the MSM won't cover these things where ever they occur as that would make all previous judgements thrown our way null and void. I have 3 grown daughters. The two eldest have conceal/carry, which we thankfully no longer need, took their initial training to recieve their lisences and keep up regular practice at both indoor and outdoor ranges. My youngest has the eye of an eagle and it doesn't matter what she fires (so far) because she believes it's simply a waste of ammo to miss. To read your assessment puts such a smile on my face….I only wish my girls were as knowledgable. That just gives us a new goal as I will be forwarding this to them and they do love a challenge. So, thank you for this. I really do mean it.
Hell, France would do a better job than our nuts in the whitehouse!
But this isn't merte incompetence- it's active *refusal* "faithfully to execute the laws." We have the spectacle of a Cabinet secretary doing TV ads telling illegals what their employment "rights" are!
(Of course, Hilda Solis is both La Raza and union- or, as the sailors say, a two-holer.)
How do you say "oops" in Spanish?
Answer: Obama
It's really weird, but I think that answer is accurate in just about any language. Go figure.
""The Diamondbacks represent Arizona, and Arizona is our key target," Favianna Rodriguez, a lead organizer with the activist group Presente.
. "When we deliver an economic blow to Arizona, it really sends a message that Americans will not tolerate laws like this.""
No, Senora Rodriguez. I think you'll find, sooner or later, that what Americans will not tolerate is the presence of foreign invaders like yourself.
Landmines.
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At this point I'm ready to nuke a Mexican city over this, one preferably saturated with drug cartel cockroaches and corrupt officials.
Ignoring this is dereliction of duty by our politicians; frankly they're as bad as the filth shooting at us from south of the border.
If all the democrat politicians in America were killed we would see dramatic change for the better, jus' sayin'.
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[...] Read the rest. Posted by Kevin Myers at 6:23 PM Tagged with: Illegal Alien Invaders [...]
obama controlled court, is this a surprise ?
I like to see you trying to sue mexico much less a wetback that invaded your home and crapped in your cellar
PHOENIX — Mexico gets to have a say in one of the lawsuits challenging Arizona's immigration enforcement law.
A federal judge on Thursday granted Mexico's request to be allowed to file a legal brief supporting the challenge. That means the judge will consider the brief Mexico submitted previously.
Mexico says it wants to defend its citizens' rights and that the law would lead to racial profiling and hinder trade and tourism. It also says the law would hinder work against drug trafficking and related violence.
The law's provisions include a requirement that police enforcing another law ask people about their immigration status if there's a "reasonable suspicion" they're in the country illegally.
The law takes effect July 29 unless blocked by a court.
Maybe, we can convince La Raza to move their HQ to El Paso, Laredo, Brownsville, or possibly further south to Juarez. Yeah thats the ticket, Juarez and let 'em see how safe they feel.
Israel would be warming up the jets for a mission.
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[...] this isn’t the only incident, as Big Journalism reports: UT Brownsville was closed for a weekend when shots came from across the border, and [...]
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Twenty-one people are dead in Mexico following a massive gun battle between rival drug and migrant-trafficking gangs near the U.S. border.
Prosecutors in northern Sonora state say the gun battle occurred in a sparsely populated area about 12 miles (20 kilometers) from the Arizona border.
The state Attorney General's Office said in a statement that nine people were captured by police at the scene of Thursday's shootings, six of whom had been wounded in the confrontation.
The area is a prime corridor for immigrant and drug smuggling.
WTF!! Is going on in my country? Can we not return fire? This looks just like the kind of crap the military goes through with the ROE crap. Villains don't play by rules, why the hell are we continuing the practice?
I guess it's going to take an all out assault from across the border before anyone here on our side does anything about it.
I think a pound of coke would make your pillow too lumpy to sleep on, no matter what the circumstances. So I've heard.
And at 9PM tonight, mountain standard time, 25+ people were killed less than two hours from my home near the AZ border, just outside of Nogales in a gun battle.
Aside from our local TV news, NOT ONE NEWS AGENCY REPORTED THAT BORDER INCIDENT. NOT AP OR REUTERS REPORTED ONE WORD ON THAT "BREAKING" STORY.
BUT ALL THE STORIES ABOUT GOP OBSTRUCTION OF IMMIGRATION, AND OBAMA'S CRITICISM OF ARIZONA IMMIGRATION LAW, OH AND A MEXICAN WOLF GETTING SHOT IN AZ WAS "HOT OFF THE PRESSES" OF OUR UTTER CRAP MSM.
Guess HUMAN BEINGS are gonna have to become MORE endangered than MEXICAN WOLVES before any news outlets report THEIR MURDERS IN THE DRUG WAR OBAMA SAYS ISN'T A SERIOUS THREAT TO SECURITY, HUH.
night night
sleep tight
armed to the teeth
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It's on Foxnews.com this morning.. .http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/01/shootout-drug-migrant-trafficking-gangs-near-border-leaves-dead-598299465/
Secession is the only answer to this problem. We must dump the tax and spend Fed. who hates us and only hampers the states, unconstitutionally . We are going to be forced to pay for all the other states that are bankrupt while we are being invaded by Drug Czars and Slave labor Smugglers. The Fed. only takes and damages the States.
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You should experience July 4 in Chicago! To the gang members on the South Side, "Gun control" just means pointing upwards and firing off a clip as fast as possible. Stay away from the windows if you live in a high-rise apartment!
"frankly they're as bad as the filth shooting at us from south of the border. "
I argue that THEY'RE WORSE because they took an oath to protect and defend us. The Mexicans and OTMs never did any such thing.
If you are a non-minority, you are a non-person to this administration.
Time for the Govenor of Texas to call in the Rangers………they have a reputation of bare-knuckle tactics and opening the can of whoop-ass from the get-go.
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You may have finally hit on a way to convince the Left to deal with the problem of illegal immigration!
Or maybe they would just blame it on the US, because of course Mexico wouldn't be so poor and need drugs if the US hadn't stolen all their resources.
Left == illogical. Facts don't matter.
South Korea maybe, but would we really WANT the European's help? Might do more harm than good.
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