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Here's something that no one is talking about concerning tonight's primaries: In my homestate of Missouri Prop C, the first legislative challenge to Obamacare exempting Missourians from Obamacare penalities, passed by 3-1 in every single county except Kansas City and St. Louis City. Rick Santorum took every...






95 Comments
Too true. For the oh so tolerant progressives, a cross is offensive (even when on private land). Church bells offend their delicate ears. Yet the amplified cry of the muezzin is the most beautiful sound in the world according to The Won and they all nod their heads and agree.
We have gone beyond Islamophobic and w'eve gone all the way to common sense. Wake up America do something everyday in an attempt to stop the spread of Islam. Make it a call 0r an email. Do something.
I'll throw something into the religious tolerance equation that nobody has brought up, especially when it comes to government intervention, or non-intervention, whichever the case may be. There were some other folks who wanted to practice their own version of religion. The government frowned upon it, and attacked them, held them under siege, and ultimately burned them to death. This was not in olden times, not in Biblical times. It was current.
They were the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas.
That is a hideous sound, that call to prayer at sundown. I hope we can stop these evil bztrds in their tracks.
Great toon! …and illustrates liberal hypocrisy perfectly.
But Cowboy! …they had guns. Now, if they had been working on the fine art of bomb making, suicide bomber seminars, or kill the infidel sermons, there would have been no problem.
not just guns, Stan,,,,they had an ARSENAL !
arsenal = any collection of more than 3 guns stored in one place…..
which can consist of a hand gun, a shotgun, and a long rifle.
Now tell me……Why on EARTH would anyone NEED more guns than that?:-D
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This two-panel sums it up perfectly.
Keep up the pressure against our two-faced biased media.
Bingo!!!! Those two panels sum up the issue perfectly. No words further needs to be said. ;0)
At their worst the davi babies would never have reached the islam population of one block of detroit. Now i would agree with taking down every mosque just as thoroughly as they did the davi's
You're exactly right about this, CL. The feds had plenty of opportunities to nab Koresh when he was out of the compound, but instead insisted on forcing the matter in such a way as to leave all of them, women and children included, burned to death. Wasn't one of the original claims that the gubberment had to stop the 'abuse of the children'?
This was the beginning of my realization of just how EVIL slick willy and his fellow demoncraps are.
Ruh Roh, Guess I should sell off a few dozen weapons, I could be next. Let me amend that to a few dozen arsenals.
It would be quite fine with me to start air-lifting plane-loads of progressives to islamic states, since that is the only kind of "religion" that seems to be ok with them.
rovers,,,,only a dozen?:-D
guess it IS true, we do everything bigger in TEXAS.
EDIT: oops rovers I missed the word "few" in your comment
not enough caffeine yet this AM
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If our being branded as 'islamophobic' results from our refusal to allow the mooslims to usurp our domestic government through the takeover by their foreign government – sharia- then how curious it is that our own media is in league with the islamofascists to try to use our own freedoms against us. This is where we Americans have to wake up, take a stand, understand and put into practice the distinction between respecting religious freedoms and fighting off a foreign invasion bent on domination and elimination of our way of life.
Secularists have a real hard time grasping the religious zealot.
How do you approach a religous cult that is hoarding weapons because they believe the government is going to attack them and subjugate them??? Well you send in the government forces to attack them and take away their weapons so you can subjugate them!!!
Of course, a brilliant plan for a peaceful resolution….NOT
So when that doesn't go well and you have law enforcement dead-set on revenge surrounding this same group that now has physical evidence to support their religious zealotry what do you do? Why, attack them with super firepower again (tank) of course!! How much dumber can you get???
Hahahaha, I hope you do for everyones sake
The libs are concerned with the freedom to practice one's faith, as long as the faith isn't of the Judeo-Christian variety.
"Islamophobia" is more of a taunt being bantered about by our vacuum-filled talking heads than it is a reality. Afraid of them? If I suddenly found myself stranded in an islamofascist state and knew that they were on the hunt to find me, then a bit of fear would be rational. But right now, America is the last great hope of humanity for FREEDOM! Let's keep it that way! Which means- let's resist every effort of the islamofascists to usurp our government with their murderous deathcult!
When I spent time in Dubai during Desert Storm, every evening the "call to prayer" would echo down the street. It was chilling.
Islam = Copycat religion. End of story.
Curious: Just how long would they hang around if one day they found out that their mosques were filled up with pigs? Gives new meaning to the idea of "when pigs fly"………..
Let's not forget, the goal of the Left is to attack all American traditions which have produced excellence and strength. To do this, they will pair up with whoever shares the desire to cut America down to size.
I always thought that the wisest approach with which the government could repudiate the fears of the Branch Davidians would have been for the government to flat-out ignore them, but no- as you say, they did the exact opposite of wise.
Now slick Willy was what – a Rhodes scholar? How in the hell can a person of that supposed caliber, surrounded by that many top advisory oval office "brains" be that blue-dress staining stupid?
No way!. Keep them in good shape, use them well and preserve them for posterity!
They aren't getting any easier to re-acquire.
There you go! Equal justice under the law. The islamofascists have a leg-up on the Davidians; having already taken down a couple of sky-scrapers.
Because your intent is to de Islamify our nation. Your error is forgiven. Now where did I leave my coffee.
Hit the nail right on the head. Can you say "Double standards?" Good. Knew you could.
Don't you worry none. I can and until the day I die be very capable of arming and entire city block.
BS! You need a long gun, pistol and shotgun to be prepared for zombie apocalypse. Don't you people ever watch zombie movies?
All kidding aside the nuts on the left think like that. I've got several "arsenals" locked up in my house. (Me loves to hunt!)
………….."The government frowned upon it, and attacked them, held them under siege, and ultimately burned them to death"
Damn Bush !!!
/sarc
Its called "Personal Agenda"!!
How about all Christians get into the habit of praying openly (and demanding the right to do so)–in schools and public places like airports and federal buildings. If Muslims are being accommodated in order to do so, why can't we? How about prayer times, prayer rooms, ritual foot baths, etc. like some public schools and universities are granting Muslims? Let's drive the all of a sudden "pro religion" left crazy and if they try and stop us, sue them like the flying Imams did U.S. Airways!
Don't worry I can arm and entire city block. Those are going nowhere.
Frankly, I'm surprised no one has pulled a tank truck up in front filled with hog blood and water and flooded the joint. Although I think they should wait until all the money is spent to build the darn thing. I mean to them 100 mil is chump change. So done once how many mosques are there in our country.
Everything but, as our leader would lament. Beautiful. Islam does not belong here. Muslims don't belong here. Consequently our alledged leader does not belong here. Thats change I can believe in.
This government and their shill partners, MSM’s will placate to the progressive agenda no matter how extreme it needs to get in their eyes. The two main faiths that will continue to be persecuted in today’s times will be all faiths following a Christian doctrine and the Jewish faith. History repeats itself. I believe all Americans firmly believe in freedom of religion, including Christian and Jews. For some though, it doesn’t dwell deep enough in their hearts.
Progressives/liberals, etc. will pull examples of religious intolerance from ancient history as their example of Christian and Jewish crimes and turn a blind-eye to the religious intolerance that is prevalent in real time. And this intolerance is NOT Christian or Jewish based. No matter how hard we try to send the message that this mosque being built at ground zero is not about religious intolerance but rather about the sensitivity on behalf of an atrocity against America and its citizens, progressives/liberals/MSM’s will stick their fingers in their ears, yell “la-la-la-la” like a bunch of immature kids and continue to bash Christians/Jews as the ones who are intolerant of other religions. THAT is the example of REAL intolerance. It’s almost as if WHO can make the biggest noise to block out the truth. But make not mistake; they are VERY concerned.
I am not one to boast strict adherence to my Christian faith. I am human and succumb to human temptations. But I do know right from wrong and respect the faith of others and do not force my faith on anyone. And while my faith suggests a “turn the other cheek” approach to any given situation, there comes a point where I must stand firm in full support of my beliefs for the sake of my survival. I will NOT denounce that faith for another and I will NOT be forced to submit against my will. I will die for my faith, my country and my family. I refuse to surrender to an ideology that puts a “Man” above all men.
The real useful idiots are being exposed. No wonder the ruling class wants to control the Internet.
There for a moment I thought you were talking about the Obama's buddys at the Weathermen.
Most things that go wrong with society is caused by big government. Have you ever wonder why that is?
This quote from Jefferson has served me well: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." — Thomas Jefferson
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant … then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
~~ Karl Popper, in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945)
Strangely, people like Christianne Amanpour never mention the religious intolerance that is manifested daily in the name of Islam. To take just one example: in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Bibles are prohibited : possession of a Bible may get a person, arrested, deported — even killed! Also banned ; any non-Islamic religious symbols, such as crosses and statues of the Buddha. The State Department’s annual human rights reports detail the arrest and deportation of many Christian worshipers every year. Furthermore, Saudi Arabia still bans the building of churches and all forms of open Christian worship. This extends to private forms of worship ; celebrating a private Sunday Mass inside a home could lead to jail, public lashings, and expulsion.
It's real simple. Any religion has the right to practice its faith right up to the point it violates the laws of this country.
Why is this such a difficult concept?
Koresch wasn't wanted for being the son of God or having a few loose nuts who bought his schtick. He was wanted for child molestation. He violated the law. Those loons waiting for the mother ship? Suicide is ILLEGAL. If one had survived, he COULD have been prosecuted.
So believe and do what you want in the name of your religion, you're still accountable under civil and criminal law. And unless God shows up to represent you in court, prayer book in hand….
you're goin down.
Why does the left insist on labeling everything they don't like a "phobia" in the first place? A "phobia" is an irrational fear, not hatred, as the Libtards constantly use it.
Then again, the more they mis-over-use the term, the better.
Agree wholeheartedly Freedom and I'll ask,,,,,,What the HELL did we the citizens of the USA
and the State of TEXAS do to stop the FEDs from their insane power trip??? Not one damn thing….
we stood by and even watched on tv and bought the 'narrative' the media fed us……..
And once again the US Gov't will use this same template to divide and conquer us one group at a
time. Will anyone stand up and scream NO, you can't do this to these folks? We'll see.
.
YO….Val, if Ms Amanpour sees your very adept depiction of her I predict a whole new face in her future…..:)
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Ha! can you imagine if the Left and right came to an armed civil war? The libtards would need the inner city gangs to protect them.
Whoa…slow down a bit, While I don't begrudge people all the guns they want, but the BD had guns that were "illegal" to own under current federal law. They obtained them illegally….now having said that I do think the ATF could have just sent a couple agents and knocked on the door and served a subpoena instead of murdering the whole lot, and yes I do believe it was murder, but at the end of the day, regardless of what your religion is and how you want to practice you had better adhere to federal law to the t…!!!!!!
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
Yeppers and frankly that would be akin to killing two birds with one stone.
How interesting to see that people still accept at face value the government narrative. Your lack of thought process is evident in the absurd statement, "Suicide is ILLEGAL. If one had survived, he COULD have been prosecuted". And the girls that you are concerned with? Oh, we had to burn them alive to save them. But the government bears not responsibility for that either. How does Ruby Ridge fit with your philosophy? Are you married to Janet Reno?
Yup, The enemy, of my enemy, is my friend!! That is their unspoken cry!
Rolly
I have yet to see any tangible proof of the allegations against Koresh! In plain fact, the FeeBees needed a big show of power due to the probable cuts in their budget which was under scrutiny.
They were also acused of having full auto machine guns so they could use the ATFE in the mix, but in fact, every single weapon they possesed was legal!
Lugnut has it correct. If your anti-gov or pro- Christian religion then they can and will use what ever measures needed to undue any base of power you may achieve!
Rolly
I might be a little bit too young for this. I remember it being on TV when I was in Middle School. Now I tried brushing up on this on Wikipedia, and I'm getting something like this:
Sect (previously led by criminally insane murderer George Roden) preaches that the world will end, and their leader, who claimed to be Jesus Christ, dissolves all marriages of sect members with the excuse that it is his duty to breed with the women. He'd apparently also had sex with girls as young as 12-13. Doesn't sound very Christian to me. Hell, it sounds rather Muslim when you think about it. Especially so when the pedophile was stockpiling heavy weaponry to defend his little harem.
Anyway. ATF lies that the sect had a meth lab to get military resources and stage a raid. Gunfire is exchanged, the place is put under siege. Brutal tactics are used, and the whole thing ends in a fire. Dozens dead. Now, I can see why it's not exactly a happy ending. And I can see why a number of federal agents should lose their jobs, and some possibly be investigated for crimes.
But is an apocalyptic, heretical cult involving polygamy and pedophilia really something we have to tolerate and defend? Just like with the spread of Sharia, I'm getting tired of tolerance, tolerance, tolerance. Why can't we call out the nutcases and say enough is enough: if you commit a crime, you go to jail, whatever you call yourself.
Let's remember that "their own version of religion" featured multiple "marriages", including to underage girls, for the leader.
And the U.S. government has taken down other "religious" leaders for such actions, including Dwight York of the Nuwaubians, and Warren Jeffs of the Fundamentalist LDS for similar crimes. The difference is that Vernon Howell chose to take people with him like Jim Jones, yet another person who used religion as a cover for his sexual excesses.
In fact one might more reasonably conclude that these show a pattern of a lack of tolerance for the practice of extreme sexual beliefs more than they show a lack of tolerance for the practice of extreme religious beliefs.
Dude, I gave you a thumbs-up for trying to educate yourself before responding, but MAN-O-man, you blew it when you went to Wiki.
They stopped receiving my yearly donations in 2007 after I learned that they had ultra-left-leaning editors who absolutely DELIGHT in deleting anything that has centrist or conservative views. In fact…
Beginning in February 2003, William Connolley rewrote Wikipedia entries on global warming, the greenhouse effect, the instrumental temperature record, the urban heat island, on climate models and on global cooling, according to the report. In February, he began editing the Little Ice Age. By August, he began to rewrite history without the Medieval Warm Period. In October, he turned to the hockey-stick chart. (WND "History of climate gets 'erased' online" More than 5,000 entries tailored to hype global-warming agenda 12/21/09)
Wikipedia would never allow the disaster created by AG Janet Reno under Slick Willy Clinton to be recorded on their progressive-polluted website.
As Americans, these people had a right to a fair trial before a judge and jury. They did not deserve to be burned to death – no matter WHAT they did.
But this shit is OKAY with the God-hating progressives, they'll allow religious leaders, followers and unborn babies to be slaughtered, but douchebag cop-killers on death row are to be aggressively defended.
Sad, sad mentality of the liberal gray matter.
Inner city gangs added to the melee just leverages incentive many-fold to TAKE OUT THE TRASH!
It disgusts me that no matter how hard we press the point that this is NOT about freedom of religion or worship and it is all about building a Victory Mosque in order to celebrate the bloody defeat of America in the battle of 9/11/01.
The Greek Orthodox church cluster foque, when compared to the expedited approval of this monstrosity also comes into play.
All I know is that James Hudnall and Val Mayerik hit the nail on the head with this one; my kids have never seen Christmas decor in their schools. They were never taught the carols or Hannukah (sp) songs that we enjoyed as kids. They've never seen a mange/nativity scene in the town square, nor have they seen a Christmas tree there.
It just amazes me that the liberals have suddenly become the "defenders of Islam" and "religious tolerance." But is anyone surprised at their hypocrisy?
You're right about that, and your observation should be a wake-up call for us to hang together lest we hange separately.
TrueBlue- we are not so far apart. I would like emphasize that a class 3 FFL violation is still to this day not a capital offense, if in fact there were full-auto weapons possessed without the "proper licensure". The BD debacle was an absolute travesty of innocent until proven guilty, and a damnable circus of stupidity on the part of the government. Ultimately, the government could have used any of hundreds of other tactics to keep from murdering numerous innocents. They were in a compound for crying out loud. Build a fence around it and hold court right there. Declare what's inside the fence a prison if they are found guilty.
Considering that the Swiss have full-autos in private possession without the bloodshed read about in our rags, I consider the distinction between an illegal type of gun and a legal type of gun to be a technicality much more gray and trivial then whether or not it is right or lawful for our big government to burn 80 people to death .
How interesting to see you have me alllll figured out. Wow….you should take your show on the road. The next Kreskin.
Get back to me when you learn the art of civil discourse.
"But is an apocalyptic, heretical cult involving polygamy and pedophilia really something we have to tolerate and defend?"
Are you granting the go-ahead to give the moooslims the big shove-off? Just asking…..
Meanwhile, the incineration of the whole lot of BDs was shocking on the part of big government; unlawful and wholly unprofessional at the juncture wherein their actions turned into a vendetta. If not, then let's apply equal BD justice to those who want to usurp our government and replace it with sharia.
When they build a church and a synagoge in Mecca we can let them start more Mosques in America, I know who the bigots are and I also know who the Useful Idiots are.
Anapour comes from the Helen Thomas School of Journaism, Conservatives suck, Christians suck, and America sucks but boy Islams just swell can't get enough of that.
Rebas it's kind of a theme of mine,,,,,,people may get tired of my asking those uncomfortable
questions but I will nevertheless continue to ask at every opportunity.
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That's the cry alright. And the whine is "that's unfaaaaaaair!"
Hey, I support a Catholics' right to build and burn a 25 foot cross on their front
lawn like any other white sheet wearing American – and yell at the top of their
lungs, "We shall not become a nation of mongrels." What's the harm?
So you are accusing the government of deliberately setting the fire, with the direct intent of killing the people inside the building?
That's a pretty hefty accusation, and far from consistent with the facts.
And again, other groups like the Branch Davidians have been taken down on gun and child abuse allegations. Not all of them ended in mass deaths, or even minor firefights. Whatever errors the FBI may or may not have made in this case, it is a serious error to ignore the predisposition of the cult leader to achieve an apolocalyptic end to his "career" as a "prophet".
Never? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege
It even includes statements about unproven allegations, and deception about the use of incendiary CS gas. How about that.
All Vernon Howell had to do to get his trial was surrender. Then he could have gone to jail as other "religious" and sexual leaders like himself have. Instead he placed staying out of jail ahead of the lives of his followers, and committed a form of "suicide by cop".
How does attacking Clinton and Reno justify endorsing that choice?
Prove it.
While you are doing that, explain why ATFE (a federal, tax collection agence) got the initial warrents for firearms violations and the initial contact was made by ATFE, instead of the proper Texas authorities, who investigated and decided there was nothing to investigate further.
While you are at that, explain why ATFE kept independent experts from examining the "illegally converted" weapons.
I agree….calmer heads should have prevailed. David Koresh routinely went into town to get mail.
I love the Swiss as well, (Got married there)..Their country actually gives them ammo to go practice with once a year….lol. That is pretty darn awesome !!! Their households are full of automatic weapons and you don't see chaos in the streets!!!
Why Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g&fe...
You just described the Democrats. Do you even know who else is in that "big tent" of yours?
Amanpour,,,, is was ugly dude
Have any opinion you want about the mosque…. bottom line it's a NY issue and nobody but NY residents, Burlington Coat Factory owners, NY officials, the Port Authority and people funding the mosque have any legal say in the matter.
deal.
Needless to say Jesus was/is no dummy…..the consummate pragmatist.
Makes me realize just how spot on the Bible really is…….
"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his lord.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do to you for my name's sake, because they don't know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have had sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me, hates my Father also."
John 15:18-23
My buddy Bronxy. How the heck are you? Coming your way in a couple weeks, but won't stop to visit. Bottom line: We don't know who set the fire. Allegations all around, no one knows for sure and you can't disprove either side's argument. Presumably, we would follow the government's claim because it is the more honorable…no, that's not right… Let's couch this in a different example, 'cause I surely love zionists: If you were the expert on site where a dubious character was also very likely to commit suicide, would it help your credentials any if you had the appearance of helping by pushing him off of the ledge? Would it help your claim any if you stuck your tank barrell XXX arm out and gave him a nudge at the same moment of flight?
We don't exactly who, but we have sufficient evidence that not all of the fires were ignited by the CS gas cannisters.
And it still requires a considerable effort to assert that the government willfully and deliberately set the fires with the intent to kill everyone inside the building.
Would I have handled the situation differently?
Definitely.
The critical thing is to never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
Or say it was deliberate. You can find just as many accusations against the FBI going back to the "glory days" of Prohibition, and the deaths of Most Wanted criminals like Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, and others.
Nobody is particularly outraged about the deliberate ambushes set up for them, but this incident drives people to a frenzy because of the presumed "Christianity" of a man who openly admitted to bedding pretty much every female in his cult.
And just as an aside, how many other Seventh Day Adventists, regular, Davidian, or itherwise, have been charged with similar activities? Many? Few? None beyond individuals acting outside the church?
So again, you still have to overcome the innate nature of the cult involved to be able to place anything approaching a majority of the blame on the government, willful or incompetent, for the events.
1) The Cops in this case were Clinton and Reno's very own; but not just cops. BATF, who have a well known heavy-handed style when it comes to anything firearms related. Of course, there were other govt. agencies. All to make a big deal out of a religious wack job with a big gun collection and a big libido. If Clinton and Reno wanted him so badly, why didn't they have their 'cops' nab him when he was out on his own, away from the rest of the group?
2)Any cop involved in "suicide by cop" has the choice of whether or not to cooperate. Meanwhile, plenty of other sectors of society have offered up ideas for tactics to diffuse a situation. Have you ever seen the comedy 'Support Your Local Sherrif'? Have you ever watched, I believe it was called 'Fort Apache, The Bronx'? Of course, they are just movies. But in real life, once the driving force behind handling the naughty BDs became vengeance, the kind of professionalism and prevailing cool heads that could have meant all the difference for kids soon to be toast was out the window. The result from the actions of the 'cops' were perhaps not intended, but the welfare of the innocent victims sure as hell was not prioritized as highly as it should have been.
"…. but this incident drives people to a frenzy because of the presumed "Christianity" of a man who openly …."
NO. The 'frenzy' continues to this day to be about roasted toasted kids who had no choice in the matter and no culpability in wacko Koresh's violations of the law.
Their "very own"?
No, Clinton's "very own" are his Secret Service security detail, and more generally Delta Force and other elite military special force units.
Reno's "very own" is more likely the Counterterrorism Division.
That is of course presuming that any military unit can be called the "very own" of particular individuals in a republic.
As for why they didn't try to arrest him while he walking down the street, you need to ask the local director that. Projecting motives onto him because you do not like the end results is far from fair.
So the BATF should have just picked up the bodies, walked away, and called it a day?
"Oh look, they shot back. Ah well, someone send a telegram to their wives, I'm for a brewski. Who's with me?"
And of course the same should apply in any hostage situation, right?
"Hold up guys, they have a hostage! Everyone back off and go home, as long as we don't pressure him nothing else will happen."
Never mind that all begs the question of how to react when a gun is suddenly pointed at you.
"When confronted by an armed suspect, immediately turn and leave the area. Do not under any circumstances allow him to provoke you into using lethal force, no matter how much his actions may endanger the lives of bystanders, and certainly not if they endanger your life, which is completely expendable to avoid even the least appearance of having anything to do with the death of anyone who may be completely innocent, or worse, suffering from suicidal impulses."
And again there is a projection, accusing the agents and their supervisors of being driven by a desire for vengeance, and further accusing them of not being as concerned for the hostages as you believe they should have been, all while directly rejecting any suggestion of the least negative motive on the part of the cultists.
Then blame the people responsible for keeping those kids in the compound – Koresh and his followers.
Then blame the people responsible for the warrants in the first place – Koresh and his followers.
Of course that means Clinton, Reno, and people who simply decided to work for the government and got caught up in a situation where people died cannot be accused out of hand.
And let's be clear about people dying during law enforcement operations: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/fbi-raid-on-det...
This fine fellow was shot and killed by the FBI after he shot and killed their dog.
Naturally: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/hamas-linked-ca...
The "usual suspects" are of course outraged about it.
Are you outraged that this man died simply for killing a dog?
Do you think the FBI was acting out vengeance when they shot him?
Do you commend their restraint as out of the ordinary in not shooting the people who were there but who surrended without firing at them?
If not, what is the difference?
Or what about the MOVE incident in Philadelphia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE
The city was actually held accountable for excessive force in that incident. Why no regular outrage about that incident? Because it was merely city police? Are they allowed to leave "roasted toasted kids" around with no real notice needed? Of course MOVE stands up for cop killers, so perhaps they aren't the greatest of people, but how exactly what choice and culpability did their children have?
Federal, man. Federal. Not local. Motives are being held suspect here, not projected…….except by you.
I'll continue to judge a tree by its fruit. BATF doesn't specialize in hostage situations. Should have left it up to the FBI if it had to be Federal. I would have preferred to have seen Texas take care of it on Texas' terms.
As far as projection goes, you are in the drivers' seat and ahead of the rest of us by miles. Bottom line- the kids were and are toast to this day, and as such, the federal agent actions leave a lot of room for criticism. Your imaginations, while rather…..funny….are off-track and missing the point.
Bronxzzzzzz, it would be awfully presumptuous (and incorrect) of you to think that I don't ultimately place a lot of the blame on David the waco-job Koresh.
The charges born on those warrants needed to be first proven in a court of law before punishment was levied, and punishment in no way, shape or form from any court in this country would have included burning kids to death. Therefore, the actions taken to execute the warrants should have been measured to the extent of successfully sorting out the perps from the innocents without collateral damage.
The local director of the agents assigned to the initial visit. I doubt that was directly ordered by Janet Reno.
And after that incident the FBI created a special unit for such situations. Were they supposed to foresee the problems and create the unit ahead of time?
And for projections, I have yet to match yours. You have accused the agents of wanting vengeance and acting with malice as a result. Do you have any evidence for that? If not, then you are projecting what you presume must have been a motive onto them.
And how were those charges to be proven if he was not first arrested?
How were the agents delivering the warrants supposed to know ahead of time it would turn into a hostage situation?
That is great 20/20 hindsight, but how exactly does it reflect the situation before the first shots were fired?
Interesting tactic. What's your point? Wondering if I ration my sentimentality? Absolutely. Life's not fair, I guess.
It you are trying to defend the idea that law enforcement doesn't have to progress into the twenty first century with all of the psychological information now at our disposal for dealing with unhinged folks, then you are not choosing a winning position.
Well at least you admit to it.
Of course life not being fair doesn't speak much to justice, does it?
And yeah, life wasn't particularly fair for those kids in Waco, any more than it was for those kids in Philadelphia. That's how it goes I guess, right?
And no, I'm not defending that law enforcement does not have to progress into the 21st century.
I'm defending that law enforcement deserves a bit of the benefit of the doubt when things go sour. Of course I live in the same city as Al "Tawana False Racism Claim?" Sharpton, where the cops are accused of the cold-blooded murder of "special groups" on a regular basis. You get to know the rhetoric used to attack the people involved when someone is killed in a law enforcement operation, be they local police or the FBI.
Are you defending the idea that using rhetoric more appropriate to a race baiting Marxist is a particularly winning position?
lol…I was asking my husband this earlier this evening. I was saying, "Arachnophobia? Oh yeah, I'm guilty. Islamophobia, homophobia? I don't think so. I have never, EVER attacked a Muslim or a gay person with a shoe. Never even screamed or jumped up on a chair when I saw one."
Feel free to browse my previous posts. If anything I've ever written comes out as in favor of that crazy IDEOLOGY, with its polygamy, stoning, and jihad, I'd be very surprised.
And if some Sharia-loving loons barricade themselves inside a mosque with their 12 year old wives (Mohammed had one, right?) then I don't think anyone but the fringe left would complain when we called in the cavalry. Or are we going to allow jihadists to stockpile weaponry on American soil, too?
I'm not saying Waco was a great thing. I'm saying from what I can read (your point about Wikipedia is noted!), despite the misuse of power and possible criminal acts, I think it'd be a mistake to go all out and limit our forces from being able to crack down on armed cults.
I will take (if not completely agree with) your point about the Davidians. No one shold be moruning those nutcases. But the idea of a weasel like Clinton deciding who is and who isn't a danger to America is something that should terrify everyone.
"Or are we going to allow jihadists to stockpile weaponry on American soil, too?"
Hate to break it to you, but we kinda already do–they're called "sleeper cells" and at this rate of muslim conquest of the West, they won't be sleeping much longer.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that there is both a "left" and a "fringe left". Please explain.
Don't forget the chainsaw.
I really do hope one day the left declares an all out civil war. It would be the funniest, bloodiest 15 minutes in this country's history.
When it comes to politics, wikipedia is about as reliable as msdnc.
Oh, and the reasons why college profs don't let you cite in papers isn't because of its unreliability but because they don't want you to see that's exactly where they get their lecture material.
The left's two proudest traditions: hypocrisy and really ugly women
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