This morning on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” program, Lawrence O’Donnell proudly declared the obvious: he’s a socialist.
After hearing the news today about the suspension of Keith Olbermann from the same network, I can’t say anyone’s all that surprised.
O’Donnell’s proclamation was made when “The Last Word” anchor got into a lively exchange with Salon.com contributor Glenn Greenwald.
“Unlike you, I am not a progressive. I am not a liberal who’s so afraid of the word that I had to change my name to progressive. Liberals amuse me. I am a Socialist. I live to the extreme left - the extreme left – of you mere liberals.”
You have to give the guy credit for standing behind his views, and doing so openly. You have to respect him for that, at least.
The exchange was part of a discussion amongst the guest panel on the program, during which they debated over the reasons why Democrats lost their elections this past Tuesday. It was actually a very engaging and interesting dialogue. O’Donnell’s points in particular were revealing of exactly why voters need to be more skeptical about the real views of political candidates.
The discussion heats up when Greenwald takes issue with O’Donnell’s election night coverage, in which, in Greenwald’s view, O’Donnell portrayed liberalism as having failed. But as Greenwald and O’Donnell get into a rather uncomfortable finger-pointing spat over O’Donnell’s election night coverage, it progresses into some interesting talk about strategy. Greenwald speculates that Democrats lost because they failed to project themselves openly as true progressives with liberal values. O’Donnell argued to the contrary. Citing the statistical breakdown of the electorate in America, O’Donnell – to his credit – points out that when 41% of the American electorate is conservative, you can’t run on a liberal platform. He explains that liberals have to tone it down and run more like Blue Dog Democrats in conservative districts, if Democrats expect to win.
“I don’t pretend that my views, which would ban all guns in America, make Medicare available to all in America, have any chance of happening in the federal government, OK. You can sit there and pretend that liberals should run more liberal in conservative districts.”
While I can’t fault O’Donnell for being honest about his views, that part of the exchange was more than illuminating. It essentially confirmed, with so much clarity, what so many conservatives have said all along. There are no Democrats anymore – that party was hijacked by liberals long ago. Most have simply been parading as conservative Democrats to appease the electorate. And this is in part why the two sides of the political spectrum seem so at odds with one another.
Earlier on, at the start of the segment, Joe Scarborough opened up with Lawrence O’Donnell, sitting beside him. Scarborough is discussing some of the strong comments from some of the Republican leadership in the wake of Tuesday’s House victory. He tries to dampen the anxiety of incensed Democrats:
“People just need to relax….So when [he] hears people setting their hair on fire over something that a Republican says, or something that a Democrat said, you just want to say, kids, relax…there’s a constitution that requires – REQUIRES….will you please explain to everybody - whether Boehner loves Obama is irrelevant, there’s a Constitution that requires them to pass budgets, pass appropriation bills…we will be fine.”
And immediately after reassuring the American public by reminding us that we have a constitution to control our government, on a network news station, he turns to and introduces …. Lawrence O’Donnell, American Socialist.
Now *that’s* reassuring.
You can get the clip here and full-length exchange on video here.






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176 Comments
I wonder what Mr. O'Donnell's salary is. I'm guessing that this miserable hypocrite makes far more money than the average prole, that he lives in comfort and splendor, and that he makes no effort to "spread his wealth" around.
When he says he's a socialist, he's correct, but not specific enough. He's a member of the nomenklatura.
There is no law stopping him from giving all his possessions and wealth to the poor. Oh? No. He wants to be one of the RICH AND FAMOUS socialists who tells YOU to give up all YOUR wealth and possessions..
Obviously educated and well-read, but not very bright. All too common in society today. Get a grip, Lawrence.
LOL…. Somehow I feel a great deal of satisfaction today for always using the term Progressive/Socialist. Now one of the leading Progressive/Socialist just confirms the fact. Now if the Communist Party's support for the Obama agenda is acknowledged by Obama, I will feel doubly satisfied.
Respect? For standing behind his views? I don't think so. Some child molesters brag about how many victims they have had. THEY stand behind their views. Or maybe you never heard of NAMBLA. It's not the willingness to concede the obvious that should win any respect. Jeez.
Lizard-"educated" by an Ivy league "school"-Barak Zero, Bill Clinton,Anita Dumb, Ass Sunstien-all "educated" in the Ivy league. I guess the Ivy must contain some of the stuff in illicit Drugs.
One has to wonder if O'donnell realizes that socialism – with it's prophets (Marx), its icons (I found the face of Che burnt into my toast yesterday and am now charging $5 to see it), it's clergy ( o'donnell, krugman, ayers, matthews, meadow), and it's demigods (Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Castro) – is little different from the fundamentalist religions he regularly derides.
As he and the rest af the Anglo Saxons at MSNBC giggle whenever someone professes their faith in a supreme being do they really not realize they have, at some point in their lives, been through an indoctrination that makes their faith in socialism no different. After all, is not faith belief despite the absence of evidence?
What religion has less evidence of its ability to improve our lives than socialism? Frankly, every experiment in socialism to date appears to have caused more suffering, yet we are told by the O'donnells of the world we must just do more worship. Like some televangelist telling us to send more money with your prayer request and then putting the pile of prayers in a dumpster behind the bank, o'donnell asks us to trust in his superior intellect that all will be well as he drives off in his (zil) limousine.
Gotta love it.
Lazy Jack
Evil-hes likely one of Sore Asses pimps, or in his case,pimples.
"There are no Democrats anymore – that party was hijacked by liberals long ago"
You are correct Miss Liberty! But we should also add Education (K – College) and of course the media.
Way back when the Soviets said "We will bury you" everyone though that meant a military invasion.
I remember at an Anti-War rally in 1969, a speaker from the Socialist Party (they were always at these affairs) saying it actually meant that by the time the Greatest Generation would reach the end of their lives they would be laid to rest by those that espoused the Socialist (Communist) ideals.
Not by invasion and occupation but rather by infiltration and indoctrination.
As pointed out in this article, over the years as new generations have grown up under their influence (education and media) they have labeled themselves to be something they are not. Democrat –> Liberal –> Progressive. As their "ideas and principles" gain greater mass appeal they will be emboldened to morph even closer to what they actually are, Progressive –> Socialist –> Communist.
These people are not evil, but they are extremely dangerous.
They just suffer under the grand delusion:
"Yes, Socialism and Communism have failed every where it has been attempted, but WE can make it work".
(YES WE CAN)
And the Left will simply respond "Look, another wacko conspiracy theory".
A proud socialist enjoying the benefits of capitalism. Who says you can't have it all?
What I find interesting is that he's trying to explain to Greenwald why liberals will always be in the minority why Americans will always reject politicians that openly proclaim their liberal or socialist beliefs. Greenwald exposes his naiveté by arguing the point.
He can freely spew Socalism, Communism or what other ism he wants. I will defend the Republic to the nth degree for my children & grandchildren.
"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can." Sam Adams
Liberty Chick, you are so right when you said we need to be more aware of politicians real views on all three sides of the spectrum.(dems.repubs.,tps') The shame of it is I think a democrat is so tunnel visioned what does it matter? As you might have guessed I live in Illinois so that reality hits me in the face every two years.
Wonder what liberals are going to call themselves in the next election? Puppies?
A socialist by any other name is still a socialist.
I proudly proclaim that I am not a socialist . . . . I do not want my country to become so . . . . And I will continue to vote that way.
It must be so much easier being a conservative politician rather than a "liberal." Liberals have to lie to get elected. Conservatives have to tell the truth.
I just don't know if I could stand having to watch whatever I say every waking moment. Maybe that's why our current president takes a teleprompter into a 6th grade classroom.
Let's all sing The Internationale in honor of Comrade O'Donnell's commitment to world socialism…
Here it is in the Russian translation…
Vstavay, proklyat'yem zakleymyonniy
Ves' mir golodnykh i rabov
Kipit nash razum vozmushchonniy
I v smertniy boy vesti gotov.
Ves' mir nasil'ya my razrushim
Do osnovan'ya, a zatem
My nash my noviy mir postroim,
Kto byl nichem, tot stanet vsem!
Pripev:
|: Èto yest' nash posledniy
I reshitel'niy boy.
S Internatsionalom
Vospryanet rod lyudskoy.
Get up, you who are branded by a curse,
You, the world's starving and enslaved!
Our outraged minds are boiling,
Ready to lead us into a deadly fight.
We will destroy this world of violence
Down to the foundations, and then
We will build our new world.
He who was nothing will become everything!
CHORUS: |: This will be the final
and decisive battle.
With the International
the mankind will get up.
What is it about this country that makes people like O'Donnell want to turn it socialist?
Like every other country where this took place, we are wealthy. We have rescources, we work, we produce. That is to socialists what bacon is to my dog.
Socialists are parasites. Their ideology isn't about making themselves better, it's about taking things from better people than themselves. They have their own life-cycles, their own camouflage, their own ways of worming their way into productive societies/organisms.
It's one of the great prices we pay when we have a society such as ours.
Oooooh, puppies! I love. . . . dang it! Tricked again!
Lots of crap coming out of the crapper as it overflows in public. The election is proving a twofer, the lamestream media and the socialists.
It only confirms what we all knew. The only way we’ll eliminate these leftist bastards is if they continue to reveal themselves.
My only concern is our team (cough-cough). The ruling class is still in protect mode, look too Senator Lindsey (what the Hell were you thinking SC) Gramanesty, and former Senator Trent (K-Street) Lott, and their continued harping in Politico, about the Tea Party effect. We must hold these traitorous self-serving bastards feet to the fire, that’s our job. Come on 2012.
Honestly, is there any difference in MSDNC and the Cartoon Network? Recently, I have found MSNBC to be a place of non-stop entertainment: full of chuckles and hoots. All the performers are looney tunes.
In my years on this planet I've come to learn that education and intelligence are mutally exclusive. Sadly, more emphasis is placed on the former with little to none on the latter, a syndrome I refer to as 'Over-educated, Under-intelligent', where in most cases education benefits reach a point of diminishing returns, and in today's 'free education' environment, is a tremendous waste of tax-payer monies.
Good point, but the price is becoming a bit too steep, don't you think?
Lawrence O'Donnald's "Candyland" view of America is what ALL Prog think…
He was just dumb enough to admit it….
I don't think the price will ever be too steep. Once we enforce or enact rules to inhibit them, we lose. We lose what America is all about. In order for our society to remain as free as it is, we have to allow those that would try to destroy it.
Liar. A socialist would want to make the same as the ditch digger. Would want to join the cotton pickers in the field. No, he is a capitalist like all the liars in journalism/MSM. Everything about them is a lie.
What’s amusing is that liberals used to run around blathering about how they’re not socialists, that it’s a Republican smear attempt, etc, despite the fact that after Hussein was coronated Newsweek had printed what all liberty hating liberals yearn for: "we’re all socialists now." And now we have O’Donnell acknowledging the obvious, that’s he’s a hypocritical socialist. I really enjoyed the imbeciles comment “I live to the extreme left – the extreme left – of you mere liberals.” You see, liberals merely give us 19% real unemployment [CA is 22%], trillions in deficit spending despite them whining about a few hundred billion under President Bush and a punitive tax system. In O’Donnel’s socialist utopia we’d have 60% unemployment, soup lines, work camps, govt ministry of truth to replace the media, dissent wouldn’t be tolerated, a true Che like paradise.
Socialism is a philosophy for losers that want to take from the productive and give to the slackers.
i've often said that i never met more stupid people in my life than i did during my 4+ yrs at the University of Colo- Boulder…
Hey! Socialism has turned out to be the best population control device ever devised. That's why they like socialism. All those dead Jews, Ukranians, Chinese, Cambodians, etc… won't be taking anything away from their nasty little progeny. They do care more, after all. Just think how many dead blacks and hispanics they could have if they could just get socialism here in the US.
He thinks he is a socialist because he's never lived under what really constitutes a socialist government.
We need only to look to those who have to learn whether a system that rewards people for their needs rather than for their accomplishments – the former Soviet satellites – works. It works as long as there are means of production to loot. Once that is gone, they live on false credit and threats of force and intimidation.
Those who used to live under socialism are pedaling towards liberal democracy and a free economy as fast as they can.
Socialism abhors individual initiative and destroys productivity and eventually runs out of value to tax.
Socialism requires leaders willing to suspend disbelief in order to appear outwardly rational.
Anyone who knows the benefits for all of a liberal democracy and a free economy yet still tries to achieve a socialist state of being is a fool or a liar or both.
A socialist living in beautifully manicured and gated community I'll bet. One who lives above the fray. Send this turd packing.
BLUNTING THE SWORD – Is O'Donnell trying to inocculate himself, so that when Comcast takes over and fires him when they cut the deadwood, he can claim ideological martyrdom?
"You have to give the guy credit for standing behind his views, and doing so openly. You have to respect him for that, at least."
No- I am officially OVER giving honesty & integrity points to people who should be intelligent enough to know that what they (supposedly/hypocritically) believe in is F—ING WRONG. History has spoken: Socialism DOES NOT WORK. Even the 'good' enlightened Euro-Swedish version is showing its inevitable cracks. Any socio-political system that depends on fundamentally better human beings to make it function properly is fatally FLAWED. Giving people credit for being honest about their abject stupidity only encourages them.
Now if we could get that dude in the WH to come out of the closet and proclaim himself an avowed Marxist
"govt ministry of truth to replace the media, dissent wouldn’t be tolerated," Ok, so how is that different from what we have now?
Lawrence, Lawrence, Lawrence-
YOU are the Poster Boy for all, that is wrong with America.
If you are so hell-bent on Socialism, how about, personally, funding it, off your OWN greenbacks–
let's see how fast, you change your mind ?
BTW, in your other life, weren't you the brother, "Niles", on "Fraser"…….you've got the same GAUNT look !
How do these idiots remember to dress themselves in the morning?
O'Donnell should stick to writing fictional screenplays. His abilities as a talking head are limited. If you want a rant, jerk on his chain and he'll give you one. Pure entertainment.
"You have to give the guy credit for standing behind his views, and doing so openly. You have to respect him for that, at least."
I totally agree: I despise Socialism but I will always have more respect for a Socialist who ADMITS he/she is a Socialist, rather than pretending that they are a 'Liberal'. Are all Democrats 'Socialists'? No, of course not…….but their party has been hijacked by Socialists and they need to man up and admit it.
Larry, please, please – go live in your socialist paradise. Cuba, Korea, China, Venezuela, even Britain – just pick one, any one. See how Utopia measures up for a few years, then come back and give us your full report. While you're here in America, you are enjoying the full benefits of Capitalism while endorsing Socialism for the rest of us – so put your money piles where your twisted mouth is and move to a Socialist country.
I don't give him credit for anything. He is a liar.
These wannabe Socialist know nothing of what being subjected to a Socialist regime is all about. They are living in Fairy Tale land. They all want to be socialist with everyone else's money and property… but not their own… no they have theirs and you won't be getting any of that..
Which is easy to do when you are well paid …
This guy is simply a jackass, a stupid one at that…
Larry, as a show of your devotion to your cause – begin by living on less than $250,000, or whatever Obama says the cut off point is this week, by giving away the bulk of your income, you elitist twit. When you fill out your little W-2, in that little section where it asks if you want any additional deductions taken from your paycheck, just write in a few million. That way, you'll be a real member of the proletariat. But, you'd rather steal money from working people so there are only two classes remaining – the oppressed poor and the elite super rich. You obviously fancy yourself a member of the ruling class – the elite. What insufferable hypocrites you reds are. Live by your own warped, out dated standard or STFU!
Well read in Marx perhaps; not Adam Smith or Hayek.
I know one thing this clown hasn't considered, that is: after the socialists run out of other people's money, they come for their useful idiots. You wouldn't last long, Larry.
Here in California, my Liberal friends are no longer afraid to proclaim they are Euro-Socialists. I so deeply wish that somehow, somewhere (but not here, but I'm afraid it might be here), they could get their wish. I would love a "Socialist Experiment Island." Lawrence O'Donnell, all my Liberal friends and then all the people they want to give entitlements and sanctuary to could live happily in a place where there are no evil capitalists, no nasty factories, no immigration laws, no Happy Meals, free everything for everyone. And then my wonderful Liberal friends can pay for all of it. Oh, and they can't leave the island until they admit that Socialism is really a crime against humanity.
They are STILL AFRAID to say that they're COMMUNISTS
Somebody nearby O'Donnell, please kick his ass…
It's frightening, huh? I run into people all the time who ask "what's wrong with socialism"? Mostly it is the under 30 crowd, but occasionally they are older. Our youth have never been taught the horrors of communism in school. I believe socialism to be the economic engine to communism. Many of our youth consider the coward Che Guevara a hero, and G.W Bush to be one of the worst leaders in history. Worse than Mao, Stalin and Hitler! Our government schools are the only answer to the question as to why that is. We are being undermined from within, and the ones doing it are always crying for more money. Seems they have not run out of other people's money quite yet, though.
Laurence O'Donnell: I am a socialist…
[Sound of crickets can be heard in background, a tumble-weed, oddly, rolls through MSNBC studios]
Laurence O'Donnell: In other news tonight, grass is green, fire is hot, and Rachel Maddow is unpleasant to look at.
America is a veritable trove of cultures and ideas revelling in a mix unlike anywhere in the world, and is resilient, insofar as the isms and ideologies can complement Americanism and it's many virtues. Many do and are incorporated into this nation's fabric while others are antithetical and should be discouraged if not prohibited outright. I guess it comes down tho the wisdom to know the difference. Always open for debate.
Lawrence also has emotional control issues. In the last 6 years I count 4 times when this clown lost it on national TV…most notably to John O'Neil of Swiftboat Vets fame.
O'Donnell to Greenwald – Face it, America does not want your agenda.
Larry, we don't want your agenda or Obama's agenda either. The health care paradise of Cuba is supposed to be a great place. Michael Moore did a "documentary" about it. Glenn might not enjoy it there, though.
Extreme is extreme. Venezuela awaits. Hugo and Barack could become co-dictators for life if he can convince him to share power in that broke dick banana republic.
Thank you for being one of those who understood that in exactly the context it was intended!!!
Without those Lawrence O'Donnell moments, Democrats who think it's still the party of their grandparents would be none the wiser. Frankly, he did me a favor – because I'm tired of trying to convince the last few old school Dems I know that the Lawrence O'Donnell's really do exist.
The problem with socialism today and why most are not alarmed at someone like O'Donnell announcing this on a psuedo news network is because all the major countries that used to herald this ideology have dropped it. Therefore, most of the people are forgetting just how evil this ideology is because its effect is becoming harder to see. Socialism, simply put is based on the government stealing from its people in order to redistribute that wealth. Supposedly the wealth redistribution is to go to the poor "have-nots" but history shows this to not be the case in most instances. That redistribution usually goes to those organizations that support the current government therefore you have people being forced to give cash to those they would never support given their own free choice.
Scarborough should have trumped him and said " You are a mere Socialist, I am a Communist". There would have been nothing left to say. This is the ridiculous conversation that is conducted in High School Campi around the USA. Sadly dorks like O'Donnell and Greenwald have grown Government to the point where it could liteally destroy our way of life. They hate capitalists like me and they love government. They wish to put people like me out of business and be in charge of doling our whatever meager wealth the socialist state can generate. If Greenwald was 1/2 a man he would have slugged that loudmouth O'Donnell.
Thank you Lawrence O'Donnell! How refreshing to hear what you said. I love your show and your views. Thank God there are still people out there that are not afraid to say where they really stand. I have never backed down from being a liberal with socialistic leanings, Bravo Lawrence! Bravo!
Wow… now that he’s got that off his back… He must feel free… (um, wrong word)
Absolutely. It just confirms the target for removal from positions where they can influence the weak minded among us.
To be honest, I actually like Glenn Greenwald's pieces since he writes from a left-libertarian perspective and it is good to see him go toe to toe with O'Donnell.
Also, as someone who loves Frederic Bastiat and Edmund Burke, I'd like to thank current liberals for hijacking the phrase from what it originally meant.
What your friends fail to see is that large business is currently in exodus from Cal-eee-fornia as they cannot afford to operate under "euro-socialist" conditions. When only the small ones remain and go bankrupt they will then realize that there is no more money to extort from these businesses to pay for the welfare programs of idiots like Gov Moonbeam. When Cali finally crashes my only hope is that the GOP is in control completely in DC so they can ensure no bailouts will be issued. Only then will these "euro-socialists" realize that their politic views are based on unsustainable policies.
I have Cuban friend who was 10 years old when he and his family were forced from Cuba by Castro and Che. One thing that he told me was that they had a saying at the time that translated from Hispanic to read "If Castro is Communist, then put me on the list!". The list referred to those escaping to the USA. In other words Castro didn't advertise his communist beliefs until it was too late even though a good major took the hints.
Now here we are today in the USA and most in the democrat party are failing to see that Obama is trying to have history repeated. I do not believe that the democrat party as a whole wants socialism/communism installed in the USA but I do believe the majority of their liberal base wants it.
Myself, I am a firm believer in capitalism but with much stronger antitrust laws installed. Corporate capitalism is what is destroying our society today because allowing these corporations too amass such size defeats competition from smaller, start up companies. Companies in a capitalist society should not be allowed to become as big as Microsoft, the perfect example of a destroyer of competition through corruption. I also believe that unions should only be allowed locally to the business they are organized within. National unions like SEIU which have their fingers in everyone's pot are a direct threat to our national security as they supersede the free elections process through intimidation, fraud and corruption. These items are what lead people to believe capitalism has failed therefore getting people to constantly retry the failed ideas of socialism.
America hates Jesus. All of you that have written in have to admit that you hate Jesus. Jesus told the rich man to give ALL his money to the poor, he said it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus is a socialist! Many of you love him, but you're not like him, and if you're not like him you won't go to heaven. Proof, the rich man who refused to feed the beggar ended up in hell while the beggar ended up in paradise, for the simple reason that he was rich and he didn't give his money to the poor. You can have a dictatorship with a capitalistic government. The way money is distributed has nothing to do with whether or not you are enslaved. Like Bill Maher said, you're not undecided voters, you're skitzophrenic! See alias billythekidexpress
My Liberal friends are in their late forties, early fifties, and are fairly well-to-do. I believe that if Democrats (who I agree have been co-opted by the Socialists) proclaimed that Republicans should be limited to one child per family, they would say "Well it's sad, but I guess it's for the best". These Libs really would follow the party line right off a cliff. They have an almost demented hatred of the right. They think every corporation is evil–that they have done absolutely no good in the world–even though their iphone is permanently attached their hands. I can't tell you how many times they say things were so much better 200 years ago. And these are people who would be considered very well educated. Is it possible that they are like lazy teenagers–they want as much as they can get without working for it? Then they figure it should be the same for everyone? Is Socialism just a political form of arrested development?
never lived under what really constitutes a socialist government.
That…….is the final explanation. Period. You can attempt to figure these people out, but you never will until you realize this. These friggin' people love immigrants, huh? Talk to one from the former Soviet bloc. You say you're a world traveler? Actually visit a socialist country and seek out the lower areas. Not the show areas. Go to the everyday places.
These flippin' retards, it'll make thier eyes big.
Good post, Prof.
I really like your union idea. Normally I am just completely opposed to them in principle. That's the first good argument I've heard–keep them small and local.
It's the government's willingness to reward their friends and punish their enemies, so to speak, that create a culture of what some people call "corporatism" in this country. I have no problem with huge corporations, as long as the legal playing field does not favor large over small. I think you'll find that many of the regulations we have created are actually protecting large businesses from smaller, more efficient start-ups. We need to focus on that as opposed to condemning "big business." The corruption generally comes from the government–the politicians who are in the pocket of corporations. All the fees and regulations most often serve to keep others out–not bring more players to the table.
That's is what makes our plight righteous. We are fighting them to save them from themselves.
Our victory doesn't destroy them. Our victory liberates them. Their Agenda we will destroy without mercy.
Well most of my Liberal friends actually aren't that fond of Jesus. Nor would they really want to give up their gorgeous homes, Hermes watches, Range Rovers and trips to Italy and give it to the homeless guy on the corner. On the other hand, most churches do feed the poor. Do you know where they get the money to do that? It's from capitalists like me who give of their own free will.
Ah, but you're backing down right now… "liberal with socialistic leanings" is just code-speak for "socialist."
Be proud of what you are, lcuti. You're a sad devotee of a dying, failed ideology responsible for untold human misery and death.
What makes you think that everyone posting here is a Christian, little leftist drone?
Why are you calling them progressive? They run from the word liberal, so that is what they should be called. They want to be known as progressives, why give them the satisfaction?
Its not a matter of whether or not you like Jesus, what matters is whether or not there is a God. If there is a God, you will be punished accordingly to the Bible. If you don't believe in God, you've got nothing to worry about, until the poor people come in your house and take your money and your cars. Jesus told the rich man to give all his money to the poor, not to donate to the church so the pastor could buy a new car. If you don't believe the words of the Bible, then just go on being a selfish self-centered person. If I see you on the side of the road in a car accident I'll just keep going, so put a yellow hankerchief on your mirror so I'll know its you
I'm not a leftist, I'm a socialist like Jesus and Lawrence. You're right, everyone isn't a Christian. That's why we went to war when three thousand people died on 9/11, but don't give a care that four thousand Americans die every month for lack of health care. You can kill with a gun, a knife, apathy, and greed. What's your weapon?
We are doomed because we allowed socialist into our schools and media. Now we have teachers "molding" the young minds of our children, who were themselves deliberately molded by their teachers with the intent of becoming perfect citizens of the new socialist utopia. All of this is reinforced by the socialist world view projected by our media, who's mission is to "expose" injustice in the world in hopes of motivating people to bring into being the great and noble Socialist Utopia. Now we have at least two generations of Americans who's cognitive powers have never been allowed to develop. Their brains work like lab rats who are trained to walk a maze. Don't believe me? Just look at the election results, especially the Peoples Republic of California.
Agreed.
Dude – you're an IDIOT.
Jesus was NOT a Socialist. Jesus was for CHARITY – which – guess what!! – has NOTHING to do with the Government. You must have been educated in Public Schools.
Socialism works fine in countries like Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands and many more. The idea that Socialism is bad comes from capitalist fearmongering and selectively pointing to failed states in which corruption (not Socialism) ate away at various societies.
America's corporate media sells the idea that socialism is a bad word, but all it means is that people are democratically deciding what's best for themselves. We have socialism here and always have – the fire department, libraries, schools are all socialized – the VA, Social Security, Medicare and even John Boehner's healthcare policy is socialist.
There is a county in the south that now charges hundred of dollars to call 911 – looking forward to that? We are all socialists in America because the Constitution clearly says the government is run for the people, by the people. If you think socialist is a bad word, you should be more specific because there are many different kinds – Cuban, Venezuelan, Soviet, Chinese, German, etc.
It's hard to discuss Socialism without defining it first – but it's clear that the corporate profiteers want to destroy the ideals of our founding fathers to ensure unfettered wealth building is not compromised by government oversight, for example auditing the waste and fraud in privatized defense contracts that added billions to our deficits.
I agree that Kali has become a bastion of socialism, but looking at demographics, they are hopelessly losing their ideological war in most of the country. They can spew their garbage, but in the face of reality, their ideal communist/socialist issue falls flat.
You first post and then this one don't jibe. First you said America "hates Jesus" and argued for that. Then you say it doesn't matter in the next post. I said my church feeds the poor, not new cars for the pastor. I said my rich pro-Socialism friends live and spend way beyond your wildest dreams and they are pretty darn stingy when it comes to charity.
If you have ever travelled to 2nd or 3rd world countries, you would understand that capitalism on the whole has helped to make people wealthier and healthier than anywhere else in the world. Have you ever been to a place where people set up their households on a dirty river with no electricity or running water? You think if all the "rich" people turned their wealth over to them we'd be better off? And then we all had no wealth?
Your argument seems to favor belief in God and then you say people who give freely to churches (where mine runs a food bank, nursery school, low-income senior citizen housing) are more self-centered than socialists who need the government to FORCE them to give. Your argument is ridiculous.
I'm not a leftist,
Oh, of course you're not a leftist, "liberal with socialistic leanings."
I'm a socialist like Jesus and Lawrence.
And Lenin and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot.
(I thought you were a liberal with "socialist leanings." Now, suddenly, you're just a socialist. Make up your mind, or just admit the truth: that there's little that's liberal about you, and much that is socialist.)
You're right, everyone isn't a Christian. That's why we went to war when three thousand people died on 9/11,
Suddenly we're talking about 9/11? Even for a leftist troll, you're incoherent. Stick to the subject, willya? I don't care what you think about 9/11.
but don't give a care that four thousand Americans die every month for lack of health care.
This statistic courtesy of the Federal Department of Making Things Up™, helping leftist drones win internet arguments since 1644.
You can kill with a gun, a knife, apathy, and greed.
And by shooting them, and starving them, and working them to death. That would be socialism's stock in trade.
What's your weapon?
History and economics. That's all that's required to show the utter failure of your beliefs, time and time again. Oh, and for all your pitiful attempts to use Christianity as a weapon to enforce your most-unchristian beliefs, Jesus never said to take from some by force in order to give to others. If you want to give of your own wealth, feel free. In fact, I applaud it. But socialism doesn't do that. It demands that OTHERS pay, and uses the force of government and law to require such.
Seriously, you are right, lcuti is an idiot.
Get the government out of business in every way–including and most importantly by handing out favors, and free markets and free minds will benefit an entire society better off than any Euro-Socialist country.
Heh Heh, Heh, They are all just whistling past the grave yard, if any of those Commie Apparatchiks thinks for even one minute that Brian Roberts of COMCAST is going to sit on his hands while those nitwits run a division of NBC further into the ground, they are in for a big fat surprise…
The reason this country is so messed up is because of people like yourself who don't talk with their brain but with greed. You can have a capitalistic system with a dictator who cares not about our constitution or anyone's rights, who doesn't care about the American people as a whole, the brotherhood. Actually, we just went through that with Bush! You're right, liberals are turning full-blown socialist, liberals ARE dying out. I used to be one. Socialists are coming out of the closet like gays are coming out of the closet in the Republican party. Let's talk about human misery and death. You can kill with a gun, you can kill with a vote. You can kill with greed. Four thousand a month are dying; what's your weapon?
If someone dies because you let them die, that's called voluntary manslaughter. Republicans have fought health care as far back as I can remember. George Bush raises his hands to God while Americans die at his feet for lack of health care, but he didn't care; he let them die. Republicans in Congress know that veterans, moms and dads, sons and daughters; four thousand of them are dying every month, but Republicans let them die for the sake of money. How much money would you pay to save the life of the person you love most? I believe all Republicans are guilty of murder, murdering Americans for the sake of money. If its gonna be an "all about me" country, then I urge everyone not to join the military; let the rich fight their own wars. It wouldn't matter much to the poor if another country invaded America, life would be about the same. It would only hurt the rich.
"Socialism works fine in countries like Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands"
Denmark: Population-5,543,819 General military commitments: negligible. Birth rate: below replacement level for native Danes, above so for immigrant Muslims.
Denmark's GDP per capita is high, but the price of household goods is much higher, thanks to the enormous tax obligations incurred by socialist and EU standards on Denmark, putting the average Dane's actual purchasing power below the poorest state in the Union, Mississippi.
Below replacement level birth rate among Danes makes their current welfare-state unsustainable in the long-term.
Finland: Population-5,372,621 General military commitments: negligible. Birth rate: below replacement levels.
Taxation and cost of living similar to Denmark, putting Finnish purchasing power below that of Mississippi's.
Norway: Population-4,911,300 General military commitments:negligible. Birth rate: nearly at replacement levels.
Norwegian purchasing power is around $55,000 per household, despite household goods costing around 25% more than the United States. This puts Norway somewhere around the GDP per capita of a middle-income state like Nevada. Norway has a huge amount of natural resources relative to its small population, similar to Alaska, which allows its citizens a tremendous amount of state subsidizing for health-care and cost-of-living expenses.
Sweden: Population-9,354,462. General military commitments-negligible. Fertility rate: 1.67, far below replacement levels, much higher among immigrant Islamic population.
Sweden's economy, like Norways, benefits from a huge number of natural resources relative to its small population. It's taxation is positively monstrous, and the purchasing power of the average Swedish household is about the same as Mississippi. It's below replacement fertility rates among productive native Swedes means a massive contraction in the taxable work-force in the foreseeable future, while much higher birth rates among Islamic immigrants also means a major cultural shift, perhaps completely changing Sweden in the long term.
Switzerland: Population-7,785,600. General military commitments- extremely negligible, active military components only part-time, reserves don't train. Fertility rate: 1.46 total, far below replacement levels.
Switzerland is not a welfare, socialistic state my measure of the word. It's taxation is almost even with ours, its system is a federal direct democracy, with most of the levels of taxation decided at the local (canton) level. Health-insurance is mandatory, but only in its most basic form, and is not a single-payer system. Still, the average cost-of-living puts Swiss purchasing power per capita below that of the United States.
The Netherlands: Population-16,625,800. General military commitments-negligible. Fertility rate-below replacement levels, much high for Muslim immigrants.
The Netherlands is a demographic basket case, with a rapidly aging population and huge cultural disturbances from a non-assimilating, rapidly growing Islamic minority. This doesn't bode well for the Dutch welfare state. The Netherlands health-care system is also not a single-payer one, and includes an opt out.
The United States: Population-310,644,000. Military commitments-vast, founding member of NATO, maintaining a network of military installations across the Pacific, Europe, Asia and Africa. Currently involved in wars and peacekeeping operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fertility rate: above replacement level.
The Unites States simply isn't in a position to found a European-style welfare state. And why should we want to? Overall the average American's purchasing power is higher than any of those states you listed, and our economic freedom greater still. We're the only major western representative democracy that until recently didn't suffer from chronic, structural unemployment, stifling bureaucratic regulation and draconian environmental regulation. And we managed this all while basically funding the defense of Europe (allowing them to shunt money from their own anemic militaries to social programs), all the while outperforming them still domestically.
The reason this country is so messed up is because of people like yourself who don't talk with their brain but with greed.
"Don't talk with their brain but with greed?" What does that even mean?
You can have a capitalistic system with a dictator who cares not about our constitution or anyone's rights, who doesn't care about the American people as a whole, the brotherhood. Actually, we just went through that with Bush!
Ah, Bush the dictator. The dictator who stood for reelection. The dictator who saw his political party lose their majority in 2006. Who stepped down as the law requires when his terms were up.
If you think Bush was a dictator, you don't even understand what the word means. No surprise, there.
You're right, liberals are turning full-blown socialist, liberals ARE dying out. I used to be one. Socialists are coming out of the closet like gays are coming out of the closet in the Republican party.
And that, drone, is why the Democrats are going to keep losing elections.
Let's talk about human misery and death. You can kill with a gun, you can kill with a vote. You can kill with greed. Four thousand a month are dying; what's your weapon?
You said those exact words in your other comment. What is this, some kind of lame signature for you? Do you think it's clever to keep writing that?
YES
Such is the cost of not doing the research and learning history's lessons.
The only response you deserve is this:
HA HA FUCKING HA, YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT THE REAL WORLD, DO YOU?
However, for the benefit of the innocent that might be looking over this comment, i shall give you a far more comprehensive response than you deserve.
For starters, what the FUCK is that first sentence supposed to mean? Even the goddamned Khmer Rouge could churn out more intellectually taxing slogans than that piece of cliched tripe, PARTICULARLY considering the degree to which it falls apart in analysis. Is the reason why virtually every single Socialist-run country in world history (from groups like Stalin and Mao right down to petty thugs like Chavez and Morales straight to those of you and your ilk) is as messed up as they are now because they talked with their brain instead of their greed? If so, than what the HELL does that say when the West and particularly the US- who thought with "greed" as you are so quick to assure us- are doing MILES better than nations run by those who supposedly thought with their brain. Did you every effing THINK about the repercussions of that, knave?
As for your rant about the US having a "capitalistic system with a dictator who cares not about our constitution or anyone's rights", I say again: HAH HAH. FUCKING HAH! You know why? Because unlike yourself I actually KNOW WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS, BECAUSE UNLIKE YOU I ACTUALLY LIVED IN AND UNDER ONE!
You want to know what IS a totalitarian capitalistic system with a dictator who cares not about our constituion or anyone's rights or their people or the brotherhood of man? SINGAPORE! How do I know this? Because I LIVED in Lee Kwan Yew's little 1984 parody while working abroad for a year. To you, dictatorship is just a fancy word you throw around with minimal understanding against your opponents. To me, IT IS COLD HARD FACT!
Yes, it is amazing what happens to ideology in the face of reality! But the process of change is not easy. I have met former moonbats, while living in the PR of Kalifornia, who have had an awakening due to some extreme event. The process they go through to repair their damaged thinking reminds me very much what I had to go through to get free of drug addiction. Good thing that the public school systems in most of the rest of the US are not as far gone.
It isn't some insult to be used in backwater chat forums, it is concrete. It is the wiretap you have on EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. YOUR. PHONES. FROM. THE. SECOND. YOU. ENTER. THE . COUNTRY. Wrap your little head around that for a second, knave. You think the Patriot Act is bad? In truth, it is, but no worse than other measures we have taken to safeguard our liberty since the Revolution, and the fact that it is not frequently abused is shown by your continued presence here. There? If you say ONE WORD to criticise Lee Kwan Yew or the PAP, they at BEST sue you for Libel in spite of the fact that the Singaporean constitution supposedly FORBIDS wiretapped evidence without a warrent (and no, they do NOT get a warrent: at best, they get one when it is time for the TRIAL rather than beforehand as they legally are OBLIGED to). And this is before we talk about the possibilities of being arrested if not caned, often after the most farcial of trials if that.
And this is before we get into the fact that the ENTIRE nation has been under marshal law that makes the Patriot Act look like something proposed by AI!
During my time in Singapore after refusing discrete demands for bribes by other names, I had been stalked by the same cars and men (I know this because I tried to stick tell-tails on them when possible), I had recieved multiple threats against my life, my property, my coworkers's lives, my wellbeing, company property, and my freedom. I had even gotten into a fistfight provoked by a man we soon learned was a plainclothes policeman with the intention of setting me up for charges. I had soon found out that meetings and disclosures I and my company had made under guarentee of privacy were in fact widely distributed and generally talked abou. I had been spied upon, bugged, harassed, nearly framed, and attacked.
And ironically, I probably got of *EASY*! I was a foreigner, and a Westerner at that. If I went missing or was imprisoned, I had my contacts with home to bail me out. Several of my Singaporean associates, however, were jailed indefinitely and grossly mistreated on virtually no basis at all (and certainly not one related to national security).
In short: I KNOW what you so flippantly claim to know. And I KNOW how it really is like. And that is why I *ASSURE* you if the US was like this, you would *NOT* be here writing this inane drivel in the first place!
Your pathetic attempts to act oppressed are an INSULT to the REAL oppressed of the world, and only showcase your gross lack of knowledge, perspective, maturity, and honor. You are not worthy to shine Lee Kwan Yew's boots, much less those of people who actually do NOT deserve to go straight to hell, and you certainly are NOT worthy to so much as LOOK IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION of my victimized assoeciates.
For all your ranting and raving against the supposedly despotic man, you would not survive an actual despot, They would simply wipe you away like they were using the brooms of Ivan the Fearsome's secret police.
And for all your pretensions to be the next great wave, any who has actually studied it would know just how hollow your posturing is. You have been "coming out of the closet" and traditional Liberalism has been dyang for literally a century and a half, according to you and your ilk. No matter the time and no matter the situation, Socialism, the death of Capitalism and Liberalism, and the rotting away of the foundations of Western Civilization are always just over the ridge, in next decade or next year. As they have been according to you nad your ilk since the mid 19th century.
You lot are like some of the old doomsday cults that keep pushing back the date of armageddon steadily and unhtinkingly year after year while still insisting that it is just over the horizon. Not only is it a fitting comparison of what would happen if your promised date ever DID arrive, but it also shows how utterly deluded you knaves are.
You care to talk about human misery and death? How DARE you knave. How DARE you come here to preach to us, to preach to me- who has seen the wreckage of the Gulags, the Concentration Camps, the Collective Farms, the Torture Cells, the swaths of land holding the mortal remains of those sacrificed on or off the field of battle for the delusions you share- about such things when you willfully champion the beliefs that have in just over a century killed more than any other ideological family in HISTORY. How DARE you, and God DAMN you, for if there is anything remotely like a just God in the world such arrogant hubris should steeply lead to hell.
You are an immature child tossing around words you do not understand about concepts you cannot grasp agianst people you cannot begin to appreciate in the service of an ideology whose horror you cannot even begin to fathom. You are contemptable in every meaning of the word, and you do not deserve the degree of attention I have just given you.
Go back and study real history, and maybe, *just* MAYBE, you might learn something of the exact magnitude of your errors. I will not hold my breath, though.
So not only are you a fool, you are a proud one at that.
Begone, knave.
Does this really deserve the effort of rebutting it? No, no it doesn't. But I will do so anyway.
Firstly, Socialism does NOT work "fine" in Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, or Bongo-Bongo in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Don't get me wrong: it sure as hell is BETTER than it is pretty much everywhere else, but that in and of itself should in no way be mistaken for working "fine." Have you seen the gross expenditures of those nations, or their downright massive amounts of debt? We might owe more money, but they owe a VASTLY higher proportion of their GDP due to spending on extremely costly and lybranthine social welfare issues, which only sinks deeper into the morass of red ink with each passing generation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE of the nations you pointed out is suffering major shortages in their vaunted heathcare and welfare systems that result in grossly inadaquate resources for virtually any situation they encounter, brain drain, and permanent rates of unemployment that one would normally identify with a state in the middle of a depression. ALL. THE. TIME.
Sure, they aren't HELL to live in, but they are still on a slow decline and it's only as slow as it is because they have outsourced several responsibilities (PARTICULARLY Defense) to us.Without Uncle America manning the lines of contact and staffing their bases, they would be even WORSE off than they are now. It isn't calamity, but if you have to extend your definition of "working fine" to include nations that are on welfare themselves, you already are off the twig, particularly since long term projections show them getting WORSE rather than better in practically every factor wroth noting (particularly population).
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