Despite all our experience with permitted concealed handguns, the debate continues. There are always fears about what might happen. A New York Times article on Monday repeated some of those concerns in an article on Utah’s permit system:
Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, asserted that Utah’s policy was dangerous because many states were lax in submitting felony and mental health records to the federal database used for background checks.
“I think it’s absolutely shameful and ludicrously irresponsible to say that anybody anywhere who wants one of our concealed-carry permits, and thus will be able to carry legally in dozens of states, can just log on to our Web site and pay 60 bucks and that’s all she wrote,” Mr. Hamm said. . . .

It is interesting that the reporter, Dan Frosch, used the term “asserted” when describing the Brady Campaign’s claims. Indeed, the article makes it clear that much more is required to get a permit than simply logging on to a website and paying $60. Criminal background checks and a four hour training course are also necessary. But there was a way of directly evaluating the Brady Campaign’s other claim that permit holders pose a danger to others. In fact, it is easy to show that permit holders are extremely law-abiding by looking at the Utah Department of Public Safety’s quarterly “Firearm Statistical Review.”
With over 226,000 active concealed-handgun permits as of March 31, 2010, there were only 14 revocations for any type of firearms-related offense over the preceding twelve months. These offenses are also usually trivial, such as accidentally carrying a permitted concealed handgun into a gun free zone.
Thirty-two other states accept permits issued in Utah precisely because of Utah’s strict requirements. Even stricter training requirements would do more harm than good, as it would reduce the number of permits issued. As my academic research shows in the new third edition of More Guns, Less Crime, people refrain from getting a gun for self-defense if it is too much of a hassle and, with fewer permitted concealed handguns, there is less crime fighting deterrence.

The law-abiding nature of Utah’s permit holders is very typical of other states. Take Florida, another state that issues a large percentage of its permits to out-of-state residents. Between Oct. 1, 1987, and June 30 this year, permits had been issued to 1.8 million people. On average, the permits had been held for quite a long time, well over ten years. For all those individuals, throughout the more than 22 years of legal carry, there were only 167 cases where the permit was revoked for a firearms related violation, or about 0.01 percent of permit holders. During the last 30 months, three additional permit holders had their permits revoked for firearms related violations, a 0.00016 percent rate.
Reporters obviously have only limited time to check claims by those they interview. And it is all to easy for interest groups, such as the Brady Campaign, to play on people’s fears. But this is the Brady Campaign and other gun control groups that have been getting a free-ride for too long in grossly exaggerating the risks of concealed handgun permit holders.






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303 Comments
Anti gun proponents for whatever reasons are seemingly unable to grasp reality. The stats are there. They are long term. There is nothing perfect. But cc permits do and will continue to reduce crime.
Why bleeding hearts cannot grasp reality in gun situations is a mystery befitting a discover channel hour.
Pray for the health of the conservatives on the Supreme Court. Without them, tyranny is assured and freedom is DEAD in America!
Why does anyone care what the New York Times thinks about anything.They probably wont be in buiness in five years.
How intellecutal dishonest do you have to be to beleive what these anti-gun people want you to swallow. Guns are dangerous-so if I lay my gun on the table it will go of on its own and shoot someone. AN INANIMATE OBJECT ! Guns are dangerous- Well so is your SUV and in fact the death by cars kills more people than guns, ever minute of every day! Guns are dangerous- so you want to take them out of the hands of LAW ABIDING people, CRIMINALS don't obey the laws so they can still have their guns! If only the law abiding obey the law, then who are gun laws really hurting!!!?!? Guns are designed to kill- No guns are designed to send a projectile down range, by that logic my knife is designed to kill, my car is designed to kill, that airplane is designed to kill……Only things I can think of that are designed to kill, electric chair, gullitine….designed to nothing else but kill, my guns HAVE NEVER KILLED A THING, maybe some paper terriorist.
While we must never let down our guard against the anti-Second Amendment forces, I believe the fight for the right of all citizens to bear arms is a battle that libertarians and conservatives are clearly winning at the moment.
The "Heller" ruling, the striking down of Chicago's gun-ban laws, falling crime rates in right-to-carry states, and public opinion polls showing broad support for an individual right to bear arms are all places where we have won real victories against the Brady Campaign, George Soros, and the rest of the anti-freedom groups.
Not as long as we have our guns…which is a big reason they're so keen to get them.
Think critically for a minute.
New Yorkers seem to be especially unable to grasp the most simple of concepts when it comes to guns…and their newspapers either initiate the ignorance or maintain it. It really doesn't matter. Let 'em stew in their own juices a while longer. Maybe some common sense will rise to the top.
But I doubt it.
I have lived with a gun in my pocket for decades and no scrap of paper from any state makes a bit of difference in it's location.
Just this that would support the Second Amendment. Too many Metro men NYC it seems. The Second Amendment is necessary and natural.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80848701/
i wonder why rich daley has not outlawed electric chairs in chicago, or gulltines, they seem to be a bit more dangerous than a hand gun. but i do think it would be a bit harder to carry one of those around. but i do remember that video of kids beating another with 2×4's, i am still waiting for those to be outlawed by daley. and in iran a woman was sentenced to be stoned to death, will daley outlaw stones too, who would have thought you can kill somebody with a rock?
Never let facts get in the way of ideology.
NYT is irrelevant, just a hack rag. The Rs should shun it for the leftist propaganda rag it is and help accelerate its demise!
The founding fathers added the 2nd amendment to the bill of rights for a reason and it wasn't only so people could protect themselves from bears and cougars or go hunting on the weekends…
They knew that the biggest enemy to the safety and security of the American people would eventually become a government drunk with power and potentially a police state.
They had the divinely inspired foresight to provide the people with the tools to put down oppression whether foreign or domestic and reinforced our god given right to employ those tools once civil discourse ran out.
That's why the 1st was first and the 2nd was second.
It's not so much that those who believe these types of hit pieces are intellectually dishonest but more as they are willfully ignorant when their only source of knowledge over an issue comes from the 5:30pm news (MSM) or news styled programs with an agenda tells them. How many people believed that all GM trucks produced in the 1980's would blow up Hollywood style when hit on the side after Dateline did their "expose'" over the topic? How many believe in the anthropologic warming when at best all real data points to human caused CO2 release to be less than 1% per year? The intellectual dishonesty falls onto those who write such articles to grab at people's ignorance over a subject and those who purposely bend / conjure up numbers to back their "research".
Take the Brady Campaign for example, one of their staple claims is that if you own a firearm you're more likely to be injured or killed by a firearm. They wave the FBI firearm data as their proof but what the Brady Campaign fails recognize is that the bulk of the firearm related incidents are related to crimes and not people being careless with their firearms. When confronted with this point they babble on about suicides and firearms, well in most states and counties suicide is illegal (which would make suicide by firearm a crime not an accident) and the fact that even if the person who took their life didn't have a firearm they would have used other means.
Enforce our right to the first ammendment or we will enforce the right of the second one…
Damn right!
The NYT cashiered its credibility eons ago. The Brady orginization has lost the debate, yet they continue with the same lies based retoric decrying citizens owning guns. The current crew in DC complain the Bill of Rights are "negitive rights" negitive in that it restricts what the government is allowed. The second ammendment in the Bill of Rights is the ultimate deterence to any who try to change the intent of the other nine ammendments. An armed citizenry is crucial to the deterence of tyranny! How many millions of innocents would have survived the holocost had they been armed sufficently to protect themselves?
"Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, asserted that Utah’s policy was dangerous….."
What I'd like to hear asked of any of these gun control spokes(men?):
"But sir, don't you think that your wife or daughter should have the choice to carry a gun, in case she needs to protect you in public?"
Mr. Lott,
Do you know what I like most about concealed carry laws that allow law abiding citizens to carry? I don't have to carry all the time! Explaining that to a liberal is like trying to convince a thirsty man to drink water who refuses for no reason . . . As in . . . . "No I will not drink that water it will help me and make me able to walk and survive, no I will not, never!"
Joe
Most would say yes. Remember, the biggest anti-gun people have bodyguards who are packin.
While I support concealed carry I don't really believe in it. I think we should all display our heat strapped to our leg. That's deterrence baby. Nobody's going to pull on you when they know you're wearing iron.
You touched on something that struck a chord with me. Gun grabbers are afraid of what MIGHT happen.
So by that logic, every restaurant that serves alcohol must confiscate everyone's car keys because they MIGHT drink and drive.
[...] the Original article Tags: Anti-Gun, Brady, Campaign’s, Rhetoric, Swallows, Times, Whole Comment (RSS) [...]
I wonder if those whizz-bang Congresspeople would let their Secret Service people walk around without guns?? Hell no they would say, I need to be protected.
Word. Many guns makes polite neighbors.
In other words, we've all slept since those newscasts of Brady being shot. And we have. And it's sad that Brady's life was forever altered by a lone nut with a handgun.
But, and I could be wrong about this, since Brady's handgun ban was passed, most of the gun related crimes committed in this country have been committed by people with, uh, handguns.
So, well intentioned as it may be……it not only violates the constitution….it's doesn't frikkin work. In fact violent crime has done nothing but go up since it was passed.
Whatever other issues are in play here…..the plan is a failure cause violent criminals, criminals who refuse to obey all the other laws, failed to, uh, obey that law too.
DUH.
They don't care about the safety statistics because they aren't driven by "safety". Stupid stories of stupid kids with stupid parents getting shot up by unsecured guns laying around the house don't really concern the Left. The stories just serve their cause – Columbine was veritable pr0n to those freaks because they figured it gave them another talking point.
They just hate guns. Why? Because if you start taxing people who work at 50, 60, 70% plus while not [Federal Income] taxing 60% of the population, at all, you are going to have people with guns in the streets demanding, um, immediate "change" that a gun-toting conservative can "believe in". Guaranteed. This scares them. It should.
HERE'S HOW TO TELL IF IT'S ABOUT SAVING LIVES. What kills more folks EVERY YEAR EVERYWHERE IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD?
GUNS
OR CARS
DUH.
BAN CARS AND YOU'LL SAVE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES EVERY YEAR.
So, exactly what mental health and background checks does an "urban" stick-up man submit before buying a .9mm from his buddy on a street corner in the Bronx? Hmmm?
When this "urban criminal" robs his victim (another criminal) and steals HIS gun – does he submit "paperwork" with that gun theft?
If the New York Times whithered away and just *disappeared*, would we notice?
Lets be honest – disarming law abidding citizens is a tenet of doctrinaire socialism/communism – a disarmed electorate won't cause *problems*. Leftist collusion to destroy our rights must be defeated – starting in November. Obama must go down – his policies must be reversed and the likes of him and his cabal must NEVER see high office AGAIN.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force you are ruined… The great object is that every man be armed… Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry, 5 June 1778, Virginia Convention speech
What is scary is the amount of influence the new York Tmies has on this debate? Why? Becuase the Times is relied on by the three major networks. And the networks, as well as the Times is the force that underpins one of the most, sorry the most corrupt organization in the United States – the Democrat Party. This party thrives on corruption, and survives only because of its lock on the media. How else could the Democrat party – the party of Dixiecrat segrationists – somehow manage to get itself remade as the party that african-americans support overwhelmingly? In fact, when there was a chance that blacks would flag in their support for Democrats, the media found a crisis – Katrina – to make Republicans look like racists. The interlocking nature of the two power groups is as yet uninvestigated, and there is a book here – will someone from Bbart write it before the original participants are gone?
one of my favorite hobbies is hanging out in front of schools, banks, post offices & other govt bldgs watching thugs bent on violence walk up to the door, see the "NO HANDGUNS ALLOWED" signs and thus chastened, sheepishly slink away. sarc/off
"Come with me, come with me and you'll be in a world of pure imaginatio…" Aahhh! Scary black gun, scary black gun!
You mean the New York Slimes.
In that same study done about the result of the lessening of restrictions on CC in Florida, it was found that the rate of gun related crime committed by CC permit holders was actually lower than that of off duty police officers. So much for official sanction reducing crime in a segment of the population, eh?
"Gun control is the belief that a woman raped and lying dead in an alley strangled with her own pantyhose is somehow morally superior to the same woman explaining to the police how her attacker got that fatal gunshot wound to the chest."
I saw this interview. The Brady guy also claimed that "thousands" of CC holders had been involved in illegal use of their guns because of Utah. "Thousands!!!" Really. No refutation at all from the interviewer. You don't have to be current on the statistics to know that was a completely made up statement. A lie. It really angers me when people that make obviously false statements in interviews are not even challenged. On the same channel they interviewed a guy from the ACLU who claimed the Az law allowed police to grab people off the street; "Mothers in laundromats with their children". Not a word to correct this lying jackass. How do people have relationships, work with others or even sleep at night when they spend their life spreading deliberate lies?
This is all propaganda and the left knows it. I would describe myself and my wife as typical gun owners. Both of us are long time carry pistol permit holders from CT. (hold UTAH permits as well) We have a very long arduous and expensive process here including local and federal bacground check, and 8 hour course with written test and life fire range proficience test.
My wife and I shoot regularly mostly pistol, some rife (I own an AR-15). We have both spent hours on the range as well as investing in private instruction for both target and self defense. My wife is a great large caliber pistol target shooter, I shoot combat pistol. There are several police officers that we shoot with regularly and we can both out shoot all but one. I own what might be considered by libs as "a small arsenal" in gun owners parlence, "a collection". Everyone in my family has been instructed in firearm safety and use. Like every other gun owner I know, I would never even dream of using a gun in self defense except as an absolute "your life or mine scenario". Why are the Libs so afraid of us?
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