Another stunning rebuke to Barack Obama: Armenian American groups have for decades sought Congressional recognition as genocide of the murder of just under two million Armenian Christians by the Islamic Ottoman Empire. Last week, they cleared an important hurdle in getting this recognition: the House Foreign Affairs Committee, over Obama’s opposition, approved a resolution calling the Turkish mass murder of the Armenians a genocide.
The Islamic supremacists haven’t infiltrated as deeply as they thought. As long as Turkey was secular, we pretended it wasn’t genocide. And now Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who once said that “there is no moderate or immoderate Islam, Islam is Islam and that’s it,” is taking on the secular military in Turkey. Traditionally, the secular army kept Turkey a “moderate” secular Muslim country, but with the election of the devout Muslim Erdogan, Turkish secularism is on the ropes. And now that Turkey is returning to the dark side, we don’t have to lie for jihadis anymore.
The Turks were furious over the Foreign Affairs Committee vote, and withdrew their ambassador to the U.S. Turkish President Abdullah Gul issued a veiled threat: “Turkey will not be responsible for the negative results that this event may lead to.”
Turkey threatens…what? Another genocide?
This should be interesting. Obviously the Muslim world thinks it can bully the U.S. President. Let’s watch and see if Obama heeds the decent and humane call from the American people, or heeds Islam.
Unfortunately, the answer is already clear. The committee’s vote is difficult for the Islamophilic Obama. He campaigned on the promise that he would officially recognize the Turkish mass murders of Armenians as a genocide. As with so many of his other promises, Obama lied and has backtracked since he became President, as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton admitted Thursday: “Circumstances have changed in very significant ways,” she said. And she said that the Obama Administration would oppose the resolution as it goes to Congress:
We do not believe that the full Congress will or should act upon that resolution and we have made that clear to all the parties involved.
Change you can’t believe in.
And my, isn’t Turkey very thin-skinned and sensitive, considering its propensity for genocide? The Turks should be busying themselves apologizing and making amends, as Germany did after World War II. But no. Instead the non-Muslim world is still stepping and fetching and covering up for over a millennium of jihad wars, land expropriations, enslavements, and humiliations of the conquered non-Muslim populations on three continents — and genocide.
Abdullah Gul also said:
We are determined to normalise Turkish-Armenian ties but we are against this being secured through the intervention of third parties and through pressure.
This is rich. How can you normalize relations when you mass murdered close to two million of the Armenian people and won’t admit it, or express regret and apologize? It was a genocide, and the covering up of Islamic genocides must end.
Let us not forget the other Christian minorities who were massacred in the same way and for the same reason. Approximately 250,000 Assyrian-Chaldeans were massacred, as well as 250,000 Greeks. Countless others were forced to convert to Islam, especially young girls. Another thing we should remember about this period is that Greece itself was occupied by the Ottoman empire for centuries, as well as Bulgaria and so on, and the non-Muslim populations in all those countries were terrorized for centuries. These nations were only freed because of World War I and the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
This is a history we must not forget.
Above all, we must not forget that the Nazis were inspired by the Armenian genocide.
The Turks used primitive gas chambers and developed other murderous templates that were later adopted by the Nazis. Hitler was inspired by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who was an officer of the Ottoman empire who participated in the Armenian genocide, and who during World War II met with Hitler and frequently with high Nazi officials. During the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946, Adolf Eichmann’s assistant, Dieter Wisliczeny, testified that Mufti was a central figure in the planning of the genocide of the Jews:
The Grand Mufti has repeatedly suggested to the Nazi authorities – including Hitler, von Ribbentrop and Himmler – the extermination of European Jewry. … The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan… He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures.
Covering for Islam’s acts of genocide encourages more Islamic genocide. Think Sudan. Congress should recognize the Armenian genocide for what it was, and call on the Turks to stop covering up and take responsibility for what they did. Barack Obama should do the same thing.
And the media should finally tell the truth.
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145 Comments
When I was in Turkey last summer the Turkish people that I met loved America. Yes even the Muslims. They were glad that America had woken up to the threat of extremist Islam as they had been fighting it for many years and were glad to have a partner. Yes they were Muslims.
I also met Christians who felt they were accepted in Turkey as they had not ever felt in other mostly Islamic countries.
Now truly I didn't meet everyone or a majority of people in Turkey, but I think I got a good feeling for the general population.
I'm not sure right now is really a good time to start alienating our allies in that part of the world. What good thing will come of this vote and is it worth creating ill will among the Turkish people?
A friend visited both Turkey and Greece about 30 years ago, and found no animousity among the commoners. The tension between the countries is created elsewhere. It is not grass roots.
Actually, the Muslims hid Jews in Turkey during WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_...
The truth doesn't fit your anti-Muslim tirades.
Yep as a presidential candidate Obama did indeed state that he would fight to recognize this as a genocide. How useful it is to stand by your principles…
Christians were persecuted in the country of our allies, the Soviets (Christians were not, largely, persecuted in Nazi Germany).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Chris...
A lot of Soviets "immigrated" to Israel….where they spit on Christians today:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?it...
Why does the Christian majority of the US allow our government to continue to prop up these violent anti-Christian regimes?
wikipedia? are you 13?
A couple good cartoons about Obama's "truthfulness" at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/truthf...
Also a humorous cartoon about our "Founding, Fondling, and Fumbling Presidents" at
http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/politi...
You don't quote Wikipedia and then come on here and expect people to buy it, lock, stock and barrel. That's your first error.
Your second error is pushing the old lie that Hitler didn't persecute Christians. Hitler shut down churches bit by bit, carting off those who wouldn't go along with his plans, and those who did oppose him openly, such as the Order of the White Rose, were executed.
Your third error is thinking that the USSR is still in existence.
Your fourth error is thinking that a numerically insignificant sect of Jews spitting on Christians is indicative of all of Israel.
I too think this is a stupid resolution; what good is an apology going to do the people most affected (the dead)? Nothing. Besides that, it wasn't the government of Turkey that did this — it was the Ottoman Empire. I know that the whole ascent of militant Islam is a problem, but to demand state apologies is just more feel-good liberalism.
Ah yes.
Here we go, on another Crusade.
Start the countdown. The anti-Zionists are going to show up in about 5,4,3,2,1 seconds………..
Thank you for this very timely piece. Two million Christian Armenians slaughtered a century ago should not be swept away heartlessly. I suggest his next trip be to Armenia, rather than Indonesia. Such a gesture could speak volumes for him and uphold some accountability for these atrocious acts.
Yes, without that Native American genocide, I am sure North America would be chatting in a true N American dialect. Only which one? My guess, is that we'd all be speaking Portuguese, instead. I wonder if the Portuguese are into casinos…
Yep, without that Native American genocide, what language would you be speaking, genius?
As I said in another post, any references or assertions about Nazi Germany should be made in fluent German, citing primary sources only.
too late – 'whatreallyhappened" is already here.
I guess he took a break from cleaning Jimmy Carter's bedpan.
maybe our president will give one of his most sincerest of bows and all will be forgiven, it's easy to do when you have no spine. should any of us be really surprised that a person with a solid history of "not voting" should want to run away yet again? and to turkey: piss off and embrace the rest of the muslim world that you've been happy to ignore(publicly) for the past 6 decades. the muslim motto: practice one thing, preach another! i.e. call for our death and cry foul when we come to defend. better still, you can pack up the family and move to a country you despise in order have a (better)future.
Amen Robb… I do think that your reference goes back to G-d told Abraham. "I will bless those that bless thee and curse those that curse thee."
There's also the hundreds of years the Maronites (Lebanese Catholics) have been persecuted by the Ottomans, Syria, and all Muslims of the Levant. Much of my family remains in Lebanon. As Maronites, they live in constant fear; it has gotten worse since PM Hariri (with Syrian support) gave Hezbollah seats in the Lebanese Parliament. 40 years before the Armenian genocide, the Syrian Muslims (Greater Syria which included modern Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine) massacred the Maronites of Mt. Lebanon. This is a part of this region's history – a region that consists of Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Whether or not that history is good, it MUST be accepted. Slavery is a part of American history. Americans accept the horrors and the inhumanity of slavery. If modern Americans cannot be blamed for the American slavery, then modern Turks cannot be blamed for past genocides. Modern Americans accept that evil part of our history. Modern Turks must accept that evil part of their history.
Contrary to what the Obama administration believes, the American government calling the Armenian genocide what it is (a genocide) will not single-handedly destroy American relations with Turkey. Some Turkish politicians may use it to score political points. However, the Turkish government has too much invested in America to destroy relations because America called the Armenian genocide a genocide. Also, it's crazy to think the normal Turkish people won't be able to see through the rhetoric of some of their radical politicians.
well since the caspian sea pipeline end up in Turkey – the US govt won't allow such a resolution to the floor. both reps and dems know it would cost us everything we fought in afghanistan for…..namely, the BTC pipeline…
Why did it take us 100yrs to call this what it is?
It was a GENOCIDE!
While we're on the subject we should point out Japan's activites in China prior to WW2,
the Russians before, during, and after WW2,
& the Surbian Genocide.
Also here in the USA we need to own up to our treatment of Native Americas.
Its sad but true, these ideas and practies have been around for centuries,
modern people should acknowalge the mistakes and tragites of the past.
However that does not mean that we are responcible for the actions of our forefathers.
we all must denounce these actions, admit our faults, or else they will happen again.
Indeed it does.
So you feel that Germany shouldn't have to recognize the holocaust because they are no longer the Third Reich? One of my best friends is Armenian. His family escaped the Armenian Holocaust, and came to this country. They kept their roots, as he still speaks Armenian fluently, was married by his Armenian priest, and he still feels strongly about how his people's slaughter has been, and still is, swept under the rug of history. It has nothing to do with Liberalism. Obviously you know of nobody whom this affects. The feelings are still strong, the people still feel that their family's losses should be recognized.
Interesting article from Breitbart:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EBES5G0...
They can't even take care of the illegal immigration problems here, and now Biden is in Israel, telling them where not to build houses.
Soviets also persecuted Jews, dumbass.
Okay, I think this is a time to ask WWBD. What Would Bismarck Do?
When the House of Representatives (or Senate) pulled this during the Bush administration, fellow conservatives were up in arms, because it could undermine us in the War on Terror by angering an important ally.
While it was horrific, our alliance with Turkey is important. And we should work to keep it.
Oh, Christ. And next you'll be telling us about WTC 7, right?
Unfotunately, with Erdogan the Islamists are now in power. His recent crackdown on the army is just a part of the ongoing campaign by the current Government to reverse Ataturk's secularisation (whilst never, of course, openly admitting it).
Ahhh- sooner or later, every troll reveals his ugly antisemitism.
Came up for air, did he?
IRS was referring to the request for turkey to apologize for the genocide as being liberalism. I agree with YOU, that wanting world aknowledgement has got nothing to do with liberalism. Sweeping it under the rug has EVERYTHING to do with liberalism.
NO, you are referring to revisionist history from a worthless source. The Grand Mufti from Jerusalem (the Muslim religious leader) was in cahoots with Hitler, the SS, and even drew up plans for the expansion of ovens for numerous concentration camps. Muslims have never liked jews, ever since the jews of Medina refused to convert over to islam, while muhammed was still alive. That's around 1400 years ago.
Too bad the REAL truth doesn't fit your anti-semitic tirades, bobo. now sit in the corner, and don't let the "dunce cap" chafe your forehead.
And I'm supposed to be surprised by the fact that their are moderate Muslims who prioritize being a human being over the systemic hatred of Jews in the Muslim world?
Does that change the fact that there is still a systemic hatred of Jews built into the Koran and Hadith? While you're on Wikipedia, go ahead and look up the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
"Until further notice, the genocide that was a genocide will not be spoken of as a genocide until further notice because current changes make this whole 'genocide thing' impractical at this point."
Thank you for your consideration,
Hillary Rodham Clinton.
You cannot be a Christian and be against God's People. If you have a problem with the Jews, God has a problem with you and you'd better change, or else.
clever nolo ~
No, just no, just good god no.
I understand and agree with your point, but PLEASE know who you are invoking before you post.
Bismarck was a tyrant, a murderer, a kidnapper, an abuser (take a look at the young Wilhelm II's experiences in his 'care'), an aggressor, and the ideological ancestor of both the German Empire that would rip Europe up- and help the Turks do the same in the Near East- while financing the Bolshevik nightmare and of Hitler's Reich, which- while on opposite sides of the political Right/Left scale, took a LOT of inspiration from him-, and thus helped create one of the greatest lasting threats to the West in the modern era.
And as for the Turkish alliance, our alliance effectively became a dead note- if not when they denied us access for the invasion of Iraq- at least when they began to occupy parts of Northern Iraq without withdrawing.
A. The Soviet regime defacto ceased to exist in 1991, and we are hardly proping up its successor.
B. Contrary to popular belief, the Israelis have actually gone to GREAT lengths to prevent anti-Christian persecution (case in point, the deployment of the nascent IDF to prevent the Stern Gang from butchering several missionaries in the Old Quarter of Jerusalem in 1949).
Your point?
Sorry guv'ner, but I must FIRMLY reject your condition as a hater of Fascism and of Islamism.
Simply put, you are forgetting the MASSIVE fact that a lot of the primary sources weren't IN GERMAN to begin with (indeed, perhaps the majority of what we know comes not from the admittedly large amount of paperwork the Reich's bureaucracy left behind, but by the careful and thorough piecing together of various firsthand accounts by the Western Allies, most commonly in English and French). There is no good reason why counts such as the testimony of the Italian police department in Rome and of the French Marquis should be discounted for merely not appearing in German, and secondly using google means that those "fluent German primary sources" are likely not to pop up in the FIRST place.
I understand and agree with your motivations (I myself know all too well- as in lifetime ban all too well- how corrupt and nepotistic Wikipedia can be), I as a historian and a supporter of Israeli sovereignty cannot agree with you, and ask that you reconsider.
True, but just as many sold them out to the Germans. And besides, that does not change the fact that the Turkish government, both under the Ottoman Sultanate and the Kemalist "Republic", committed genocide against those who were supposedly its citizens.
It would very definitely be a Good Thing if we could get Congress to tell the truth.
About almost anything.
Likewise if we could get Obama to start telling the truth. And the media as well.
But I don't intend to start holding my breath …
Like a used car salesman, ol' Barry Soetero.. What to believe?
His loyalty to Muslims has been a fantastic thing to behold.. if you're Muslim. But as an Armenian-American, and a direct descendant of Armenians massacred by the Turks, I was hoping that the head-bobber would hold firm (really, it is hard to even type this knowing what we know now of the liar Hussein) on this promise made during his man-of-the-people campaign.
It isn't surprising, but it's very disappointing. The movie 'Ararat' by Atom Egoyan depicts the sad story very well. But thank you for an excellent article.. nice to know there is support out there outside of the Armenian community.
I get sick of our "treatment of the Native Americans" being an issue. If people on this continent weren't speaking English, what language would it be? The Dutch, the French, the Portuguese were all sailing the ocean blue at the time of Columbus. The indians were killing themselves and trying to take land from one another. The Southern indians were ritually cutting each other's hearts out of live sacrificial citizens, and those sailing the oceans were protecting their OWN borders from foreign invasion. This entire continent could just as well be speaking Portuguese as English. Because, there were no standing armies of Indians protecting their borders, were there? Land was acquired through WAR!
What about those of us that just don't give a damn about the Jews or Muslims? If they went to war and annihilated each other from the planet, I wouldn't shed a tear. Conversely, if they come to their senses and want to live in peace, I wouldn't express any joy or sadness.
Just like with the government, I would rather just be left alone by these two children pretending to be my friend. Israel is no friend of the United States. Does the name Jonathan Pollard come to anyone's mind? Don't buy the lies that Israel is a friend of the United States.
Is a Christian and I don't give a damn for Israel or the Jews any more than I would anyone else. I find it simply insulting that anyone would proclaim what you wrote as true. How incredibly stupid can someone be?
Why do you or anyone else care?
Biden shouldn't be telling the Israelis or anyone else what they can or cannot do.
Pure poppycock!
Apparently you are a "Christian" who has never read his Bible, let alone believed anything that might be found within. If you had, you would realize just how foolish the sentiment expressed in your comment is, and you would not have posted it. If.
Your attempt at moral equivalency regarding the Jewish/Muslim situation is pathetic. Someone as obviously ignorant of the facts as you no doubt are should refrain from commenting on such matters. You make yourself look ridiculous. Of course, seeing as your only real intent is to demonize the Jews, you're probably not too concerned with that. Right?
Why did it take us 100yrs to call this what it is?
"Who remembers now the destruction of the Armenians?"–Adolph Hitler
"Murder a few people and history will remember, murder a million people and no one will remember"–Adolph Hitler
I paraphrase that second quote but the essence of his intent is accurate.
This was an episode of history that I was surprised they never taught us in high school world history, especially considering the connection it had to the Nazi holocaust. I later read "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story" and Peter Balakian's "The Burning Tigris". Fascinating foray into the depravity of man.
The Soviets were Jews. Look up Trotsky's real name.
If you believe mistranslated and completely false Bibles only.
I know it was wrong but Armenians are really annoying.
All the dear hearts crying we should forget about this because it happened a hundred years ago — are you just as willing to let the Spanish Inquisition be forgotten?
Actually they are not a numerically insignificant sect.
However, they also spit on Jews. And throw rocks at them. And commit other general acts of violence against them.
How dare you mention other genocides – there can be only ONE. Lock this man up for Holocaust denial!
So long as we can correct the absurd claims of the Holocaust religionists. The Red Cross were actually IN THE CAMPS and estimated the deaths, due to typhus, was half a million. A far cry from some cockamamie story about gas chambers with unsealed wooden doors and deliberate extermination. And don't forget the fire pits which have been completely disproven along with more "Big Lies" about lampshades (turned out to be lamb skin) and soap.
One thinks Turkey makes the mistake of not acknowledging the slaughter of their Christian neighbors, inside and outside of Turkey. That is because they do not recognize this as genocide, but as the legitimate expression and doctrine of jihad. They cannot deny the commandments of the Koran as the motiviation and justification for the slaughter of the Christian Armenians.
And which versions, if any, do you view as not being "mistranslated and completely false," in which Robb76's original statement would be shown to be incorrect? Can you name a few? No, you can not.
God's people are the Christians. If you believe otherwise why don't you become a Jew, eh? Why would you choose to be excluded?
Scofield is where most of this nonsense emanates.
Let me apologize for all the past sins of EVERYBODY!
Was it genocide? Yes. Was it horrible and evil? Well, it was genocide, so duh!
Does it serve any USEFUL purpose to keep re-hashing the past? Should people who were not even alive be held to account? Not in my book…
Anybody who thinks modern Turks need to apologize should also ask themselves about apologies and reparations for slavery in America's past. Generational guilt is a Lefty device. You are not responsible or accountable for the acts of generations past, only your own actions (or in-actions).
With all respect due to Armenian immigrants (and Americans so descended) I have, and do know- Get over it! You can't change the past, bring back the dead or re-fight the war! Honor the dead by making sure it never happens again! I will stand with you.
Murder by reason of "group/ethnic/religious" membership is primitive crap and needs to never be allowed again. Constantly picking at historical scabs ensures the wound will never heal. Is not one of the current excuses of the terrorist devils their "historic" treatment at the hand of the "infidel"? Does America hold grudges?
Stop fighting old wars, stand strong in the current one. Something tangible is actually at stake- your freedom, and that of future generations.
Priorities…
hey Randy, Hitler had jewish ancestry. That didn't stop him from killing over 6 million of them. Try again.
Hey, Zebo and Randy, if You truly think that Jews were wrong, then so was Jesus. He was a Jew, not a christian. Those that followed him were jews, also. Christianity didn't really kick in until well after the apostles' death. Besides, Half of the bible is the Torah. So by excluding Jews, you exclude Half of your religion.
You couldn't pour piss out of a boot, if the instructions were written on the heel.
A bible believing christian is a Zionist. Period.
Almost never is. "Real" people are pragmatic/realistic. Wars are started by "politicians" no matter how selected or empowered. "Normal" people are happy to live their lives and trade freely for mutual benefit.
The "elite" classes start wars over petty jealousy or hunger for greater power.
Know any "racist" whites who bad mouth blacks, but when they meet one, or work with one, readily say "well, they're a "good" one". Dumb mindset and sorry-ass group-think…
Hey, Zebo, you knuckle dragging, mouth breathing idiot, if you prefer being judged by a jury of your peers, over a witch hunt, thank the Jews. They invented it. If you got a public education, thank the Jews also. They introduced the idea, with their own money and philanthropy for thousands of years. You are either woefully ignorant, or just plain racist. I can't figure it out yet. keep posting. the truth will appear.
BTW, i'm not a jew, but I do play one on TV.
mistranslated Randy? Do you have intimate knowledge of Latin?
Your logic is tucked away nicely behind your insanity. Accusing one of holocaust denial by pointing out a holocaust is so….muslim. or progressive. both fit the definition.
REALLY?!?!? you tool. Every country has had census takers for eons. So, mr. knowitall, tell me, where did the other 5.5 million jews hide? Do you seriously think that over 5 million people could just disappear?
Exactly. And those of us who know islam, or have read the qu'ran, the hadith and the suna, know that "kafir" are less than human. It is a religious duty for muslims to kill them whenever possible, unless the "kafir" are in a position of power, then the main job is "taqiyya" or lying to promote islam.
friggin cult.
Why shouldn't there be as many museums in the US (paid for by tax dollars) as there are for the "Holocaust"?
I couldn't finish the article for fear my head might explode! From what I read it seems thoughtful and well written, but…don't we have ENOUGH on our plates?! We are at such a critical point in our own history that I have become hardened and selfish regarding the problems other countries are having that don't have an immeditate and personal impact on us.
Museums for what? You didn't specify.
The "Holocaust" is every bit as real as the Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turk/Ottoman Empire was. I know some Armenians (first gen Americans, really). Doesn't negate my point.
Political "museums" deserve no taxpayer funding, historical ones not related to U.S. history and philosophy, ditto. Raise your money and do what you want. And don't answer about this or that museum funded by taxpayers, I don't know them all and didn't vote for any of them…
Free to open your own museum as you can afford.
I guess the short answer to your question is: Just as many – NONE!
It has everything to do with liberalism. Liberalism is a constant barrage of pointing fingers, making excuses, and not confronting issues. Let's call it PC. Liberals can't bring themselves to call genocide what it is, unless it is Americans committing it.
"Christians were persecuted in the country of our allies, the Soviets (Christians were not, largely, persecuted in Nazi Germany)."
Yeah, right about there you can go fuck yourself. My grandfather Rubin, was an Armenian who lost his entire family in the genocide while on vacation in America. Members of my father's faith were thrown in concentration camps because they refused to join the German Army during World War II.
Please correct the number of the victims to the following:
Armenians 1,500,000
Assyrians 750,000
Pontic Greeks 353,000
Because you mentioned 200,000 for Assyrians
May Assur Bless the sould of all
I have read the Article and Why do you call the Aramean (Syriac) genocide as the "Assyrian" genocide?
It's not the "Assyrian" genocide.
The assyrians do not exist anymore, Asyrians are extinct.
It's the Aramean (Syriac) genocide.
The people of Tur Abdin (south-east-turkey) are the Syriac people and the Syriacs are ethnic Arameans, please read the history.
Today the pseudo-Assyrians (East-Arameans) make propaganda.
We are the Syriac-Aramean people and not the Assyrian people.
please change, it is not the truth
I love it how some people on here are saying why do this since it was a hundred years ago that this happened but then talk about the American Indians which was over a hundred years ago. Or i am sure that they feel just fine in considering me a racist because i was born in Georgia and over 160 years ago some people in Georgia owned slaves. It is the same standards for everybody or nobody is to blame for something that happened before they where born. and FYI i consider what happened in Armenia genocide. Just like the Japanese did with the Chinese or Stalin did with people in his country. He made Hitler look like a beginner at killing people.
Turkish President Abdullah Gul issued a veiled threat: “Turkey will not be responsible for the negative results that this event may lead to.”
I say we send Gul Dukat in to deal with this issue. The Turks would be no match for the Cardassians.
"Christians were not, largely, persecuted in Nazi Germany"
Last I checked, Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holcaust#Jehovah.27s...
annielew: You say you are not sure right now is really a good time to start alienating our allies in that part of the world.
When would you suggest might be a good time to call a spade a spade and genocide a genocide? Whilst waiting for your comfort zone to arrive, do you think scuttling the truth because "the timing is wrong" is likely to intimidate the guilty, or embolden them? Also by waiting, is the supposedly free world's message to the true genocidal face of Islam, that theirs weren't (and aren't, as in Sudan) genocides, but will be when the time is right?
It is time for the free world to elect leaders with a spine.
Recognition of facts is not re-hashing history, it is preserving history. Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. As for the apology tour by our current President, he seems to think it is appropriate for him to apologies for his perception of Americas past sins, well Mr. Obama if recognising our past sins is so good for our national soul, why aren't you concerned about the national soul of Turkey? This is a President of double standards, double speak and sadly double cross.
The propaganda machine of the slick Armenian lobby started out in the 1920s with claims of three hundred thousand Armenian dead. In the tradition of Armenian hocus-pocus, Ms. Gelller has now jacked up the number to "just under two million". That is magic indeed! It is also magic that the Ottomans managed to kill 2 million out of a total Armenian population of 1.3 million. New math? You think?
But since Ms. Geller seems to be an expert on the Turkish-Armeno conflict of 1915, let us pose this question to her : How many Turkish, Kurdish, Muslim, Jewish citizens of the Ottoman Empire were slaughtered by the Armenian goon squads, before, during and after 1915?
A bit of research will show that the Armenian terror gangs like Dashnaks and Hunchaks of that era would make Osama bin Laden and his hoodlums look like mickey-mouse operators.
It takes chutzpah as large as the pre-surgery nose of Cher Sarkissian, and post-surgery size of Kim Kardashian's derriere, for Pamela Geller to to demand an accounting from today's Turkish nation, even as she, herself, shamelessly sits on the stolen property of the Native Americans. While very eminent historians like Bernard Lewis dispute the outlandish claims of the deceitful Armenian lobby, no one worth his salt disputes that mother of all genocides – that of the American Indians.
As Ms. Geller claims to be on the high moral road, would she kindly follow that road by packing her bags and exiting my land – the land that belonged to my ancestors for thirty thousand years, before Ms. Geller and her ilk exterminated them. And before she leaves, it might also behoove her to pony up that 40 acres and a mule that were promised to the freed African slaves. Armenian genocide? Nuts!
Not only did Turkey murder nearly 2 million Armenians during the dying days of Ottoman Empire but 500,000 Anatolian & Levantine Greeks who had inhabiting Turkey's southern coast and the Middle east for 3,000 years and drove another 2 million into exile.
The Turks while murdering Armenians and Greeks in their polygot empire at the same time also exterminated somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 Assyrian Christians largely in what is now Iraq. The Turks and their useful idiot stool pugeon apologists can deny that a genocide against Armenians, Grreks, and Assyrian Christians occurred but a search of newspaper stories of the years 1914-1923 in every significant country on six inhabited continents will verify the horrors of the age. Hitler and his minions tudied theTurks human extermination methods in formulating their "Final Solution".
The hoorors perpetrated by the Turks were so heinous that German diplomats and military personnel posted to their wartime ally protested the Turk's savagery against Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrian Christians.
The war against Islamist genocide IS the current one.
Allowing the Armenian Genocide to pass simply because someone else did it to some other people (never mind the number of Americans of Armenian heritage, many of whose ancestors came here because of this) is the best way to both guarantee that it will happen again and that no one will particularly care when it is done to us.
Oh wait, nobody does particularly care about the terrorist threat to America.
And nobody particularly cares about the oppression of other religious minorities, particularly Christians. 500 massacred in Nigeria anyone? Oh wait, you have not heard about that? How odd . . .
Yes, everything is wonderful.
Which is why the Orthodox Church is suing the Turkish government in the European Court for human rights violations.
Which is why a synangogue was invaded recently in Turkey.
Which is why the "secular" Prime Minister of "secular" Turkey is off getting an award in Saudia Arabia for service to Islam.
Which is why polls show Turks oppose equal rights for religions other than Islam.
Which is why Turkey claims the "Ottomans" committed the genocide, not them, but you cannot mention it anyway.
I know what's written in the Bible. I do not believe that the modern nation of Israel are God's "chosen people". That you do says more about you than it does about me.
A great point, Randy. People should heed to words of Christ about how to get into the Kingdom of His Father.
Then inform me of the facts, Vincent. I dare you to actually have some.
I have not intention of demonizing anyone. The modern State of Israel is not as friendly to the United States as you would pretend them to be. Sticking one's head down a hole would be more enlightening of the facts than your argument.
I will only mention Jesus Christ and Barabbas and not go into the whole story. Every Christian knows the story.
Everything I've learned outside of the public school system (I had both a private and public education) has been enormously more applicable than anything I learned in it.
A racist? That's great, since I almost married a Jewish woman. Oh! I get it now! I'm racist since she wasn't a black Jew! Not sure how you would know that though. Simply laughable! I suggest that you stop while you're ahead.
Why did the United States Congress feel compelled to formally say anything about it?
Simply stupid and a complete waste of time.
Justice is never a waste of time.
Old One,
You forgot to list the genocide of the Martians. Scientists now believe that a great Martian civilization once existed on Mars – that is, until the Terrible Turk got there and wiped it out.
Ms. Geller, since you are in the business of demanding apologies and "amends", how about demanding apologies and amends from the Armenians for the participation of French Armenians in France's slaughter of one million Algerians in that country, 1954-1962? Some of the victims are still alive – albeit maimed, due to torture by the Armenians.
Why do you not demand apologies and reparations for the atrocities committed by the notorious, Nazi-employed ARMENIAN BRIGADE? During WWII, this 20,000-strong goon squad of Armenians was tasked by the Nazis to hunt down and exterminate Jews in German-occupied countries. The Armenian butchers accomplished their grisly task much to the satisfaction of their Nazi employers.
Why do you not demand apologies and reparations from the Armenians for their 1990s sneak attack, occupation of Azerbaijan and massacres of thousands of Azeri people?
Why do you not demand apologies and compensation from Armenians for the murders committed in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s by the Armenian terror organization ASALA? In addition to dozens of Turkish diplomats, dozens more bystanders, including Turkish, American, French and Canadian citizens were slaughtered by this Armenian terrorist organization.
Why do you not demand apologies and reparations from the Greeks for their invasion and occupation of Turkey 1919-1922? In those years, the Greek hordes rampaged through Turkish Anatolia, raping, murdering, thieving, pillaging – that is, until the Turkish nation was able to form an under-manned, ill-equipped army which nonetheless was able to drive back the invading Greek hordes until they ran so far as to run out of ground, where they met their demise and surrendered at the shores of the Aegean Sea.
While you are at it, Ms. Geller, do you have plans to hold Sophia Loren, Carla Bruni (Mrs. Sarkozy) and Cicciolina accountable for the crimes of the Roman Empire?
And when are you going to pay reparations to me for genociding my people, and when are you leaving my land which you stole?
It was a different generation. Are ANY of the perps still alive? What meaning is there in apologizing for something that happened before you were born? I never suggested sweeping under the rug or writing it out of history.
The Arab/Muslim war against Africa and the resultant genocide? If you have good, reliable links, post 'em. One of the most ignored stories in the whole world. I've been telling people for years that our fine muslim brothers are spreading their message of peace and brotherly love to Africa through war, violence and genocide. Convert or die. Submit, or they rape, pillage and burn you home. I welcome any links you might share…
Since no one is looking to prosecute anyone, or even demanding compensation from anyone, or even asking for an apology, you question is irrelevant.
This whole thing is prompted by Turkish threats against the actions of our sovereign government in recognizing a historical event. Blackmailing Congress into not passing a resolution about it is merely the first step. In due course it will not be written out of history, but rewritten as a great even in the purification of the world.
As for reliable links, look around. You need to be willfully blind not to be able to find them these days, both of the general Islamic ethnic and religious cleansings of the last 14 centuries, or of the ongoing massacres.
Okay, we seem to be misunderstanding each other.
Is it appropriate for the U.S. Congress to adopt a resolution such as this? You think so, and I agree. They probably won't, and we both know why.
We were getting at different things. After re-reading our posts, I believe I was lacking in clarity in p.5 in my original post. My apologies…
As for links about Africa? Priorities. My reading list is very full, but if something new pops into my field of view I may pursue it.
I didn't say everything was "wonderful." I said that the citizens of Turkey I met supported the US in our fight against Islamic extremism.
I don't see how passing this resolution is going to change any of the things you mentioned. I think passing the resolution might harm our relations with the Turkish citizenry, and I really don't see what good is going to come out of it.
"The guilty" are dead and gone and cannot be emboldened. It was not even the country of Turkey that committed the genocide. I'm all for standing up for truth but you have to have priorities. I think supporting democracies in that part of the world is more important at this point than a meaningless resolution. What do you expect this resolution to do besides antagonize Turkey? People keep saying no one will care, but it certainly won't do any good for our relations with the Turkish people. I'm sure we'd feel just peachy toward other countries that started passing resolutions condemning us for the sins of our ancestors.
Next time you go to Tukey, try to converse with people about their dark past and see what happens. Talk to them about Article 301, Cyprus and freedom of speech. 95 years may seem to be long enough for denialists to cover up what their ancestors did, but is certanly a fresh memory for those who experienced hell… BTW, I don't think Germans are harassed for what their ancestors did; they are a well-respected, leading European nation. They are celebrated for who they are, which includes openy debating about their darker past. I don't think they will distort history 30 years down the road, nor will they spend millions of taxpeyrs money desperately trying to convince the world the Holocaust was just a "tragedy" during WWII. A well known genocide scholar once said: "denial is the last stage of genocide." Fortunately, some poiticians can take a positon on this issue, others are ethically and literaly corrupt, and the rest can choose to remain bystanders…
Thank you, Pamela, for this article. I hope Turks will finally look at this issue in a different and more positive light, that openly confronting their past will only bring them closer to a democratic society, and will do them a lot of good in the end… I also hope Americans, and Obama in particular, can demonstrate the world that no other country, ally or foe, should be telling us what to say or think, especialy about fundamental human rights issues..
Annie,
I am sorry but NO GENOCIDE should be forgotten or gone unpunished… You play a big role of covering for your govt wrong doing by not standing up for what is just and the truth.. Yes you need to pay what your ancestors DID and not might have done…
And no matter how long it takes for the Armenians to get a recognition and get all their lands and possessions that your ancestors TOOK from them, we will continue to fight… 90 years of 150 years…
G
WELL SAID MARK.. thank you
Speck Philtor..
Obviously you did not have anyone pull apart in pieces… you think Armenians are annoying? Try to read about Turkey and how annoying they are crying wolf something they did and still continue to do..
So go learn the history and then insult us…
G
GET OVER IT?
THE REASON the genocides continued to happen is because Turkey got away without punishment.. if we don't want it to happen again, we need to Turkey to pay for what they did..
You are such a joke…
All of you including Anne lew and the rest with backwards minds like her should definintely study history before they voice their opinion.. it is very ignorant and stupid to comment when one is in denial ….
NEWS FLASH PEOPLE OF SMALL BRAINS who believe Armenian Genocide did not happen or say it is not the right time to bring this up or what would it do if it gets recognized… It is such a shame that our human beings are going backwards instead of going forward…..
The Armenian Genocide DID happen and Turkey WILL pay for their atrocities.. I hope that Greeks, Bulgerians, Assyrians and others who were affected by Turks will stand up and demand ..yes .. DEMAND justice along with us…
Hope God punishes all of those how not only perpetrated the Genocide but also those that contineously denying it…
G
Annie Lew says that during her trip to Turkey, she learned that Turks like Americans. What's that got to do with the Genocide of Armenians? Armenians love America too. There are more than 750,000 American-Armenians. Others wrote that the Genocide took place long ago. True, but according to international law there's no statute of limitation to genocide. Turkey killed at least 1.5 million innocent Armenians and deported 500,000 to the Syrian Desert to die.
It was the killing of 90% of the Armenian population of Turkey. To bring that percentage into perspective, it was like killing 330 million Americans of a population of 350 million. To this day Turkey occupies 80% of historic Armenia and has the nerve to deny it committed genocide–a fact which the International Association of Genocide Scholars have affirmed repeatedly.
What does this have to do with religion? Do you think that if any other national or religious group sided with the Ottoman Empire's war-time enemy (Russia) and started killing civilians from the inside, that the Ottoman Empire wouldn't relocate them? Didn't we relocate the Japanese in California during WW2? The only difference is that their numbers were less, and they didn't die due to hunger or atrocities. Genocide or not, let's stop thinking that every war is a religious war. In addition, maybe it's time to move this discussion from the Congress or other Parliaments to international courts like the Hague. That's where you have the historians, genocide experts and the evidence weigh in – and not emotional collateral or religious bias. That's where cases like this belong. Ask the diaspora to file a case in the Hague.
Everybody ACTUALLY involved is DEAD. COLLECTIVE GUILT is a construct of the Left. "Turkey" cannot "pay " or be punished if you cannot identify specific individuals responsible and punish them.
Genocide, famine, poverty, war and most every other mass human failure or tragedy are a direct result of Subjective government rather than Objective government.
If you don't understand what that means, you don't understand what I post.
Joke? Nah, but it's pretty clear that you are an ass.
I dont get what gives Congress the right to pass resolutions condemning issues in other countries? The Turks should accept the fact that they massacred thousands of Armenians, no doubt, but why some Congressman gets to direct American foreign policy to satisfy a minority constituency is beyond me.
What happened to national interest?
"What will the Turks do?" – Well now they sure as hell wont support sanctions on Iran, allow the use of their airspace in the case strikes become inevitable, they sure as hell wont divest from Iran's energy sector or be overly inclined to play their usual role in mediation efforts in the Middle East. They can choose to close a vital American staging base in Incirlik, they can choose not to cooperate in Northern Iraq etc etc etc.
All because one Congressman wants to win again……. and that's something to applaud?
Then inform me of the facts, Vincent. I dare you to actually have some.
I have not intention of demonizing anyone. The modern State of Israel is not as friendly to the United States as you would pretend them to be. Sticking one's head down a hole would be more enlightening of the facts than your argument.
Mark, apparently Pamela is not aware of the opinion of her country's president, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, Shimon Peres, on this subject. In 2003, in his role as the foreign minister of Israel, Mr. Peres said this : "Armenian allegations are meaningless. We reject attempts to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian allegations. Nothing similar happened."
I hope the hate-mongering Armenians will one day finally confront the dark history of their progenitors, which can bring them to closer to a democratic society. I also hope that the Americans and our government will tell the slick Armenian lobby to keep their hate agenda and dogma off American shores.
Gayane, when will you and the rest of the Armenian usurpers/settlers/colonists/thieves/interlopers pay for the crimes you committed against the American Indian nation? The Armenian settlements of Glendale, Fresno, Watertown, Pawtucket and Ho-Ho-Kus are "historic" Amerindian land. I cannot say that I hope God punishes the Armenian merchants of hate, because I am a devout, practicing, born-again atheist. God does not exist. If She existed, She would not have allowed the Armenian terrorists to commit their bloody crimes.
Vahan, how many Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic, Laz, Georgian, Circassian, Tatar, Bosniak, Slavic, Manav, Jewish, Muslim citizens of the Ottoman Turkish Empire were slaughtered by the rampaging Armenian Dashnak and Hunchak terror gangs, before, during and after 1915? Please don't bother with the Armenian "self defense" argument, for only in the depraved mind of an Armenian fanatic do the murders of defenseless old men, women, children and infants constitute self defense. When the Armenian terrorists pounced on defenseless villages, all of Turkey's young men were at half dozen war fronts fighting for the nation's very survival in WWI.
JakeinLA, it has to do with religion because the Armenian slicks like to play the "religion card." You know… the poor "Christian" Armenians up against the big bad, infidel Muslim Turk. As for Armenians taking their case to a real court, you know that ain't never gonna happen because they have no case. It is much more expedient for them to pay off politicians from their deep pockets in order to pass an "Armenian Resolution". Afterwards, they claim that the genocide must have occurred because so and so congress or so and so parliament said it occurred. This is tantamount to what that proverbial,obnoxious macho man does. You know the kind I mean, the one with the balding head, pot belly, with his shirt buttons open down to his belly, with gold chains on his neck and with one female on each arm. This odious creature constantly brags about his sexual prowess – and as his witnesses to this marvelous sexual prowess of his, he points to the testimony of the prostitutes whom he pays handsomely. Go figure.
LoneModerate, someone on this site previously stated that a spade should be called a spade. Okay by me. Let;s do that. Fact : Those ethnic-pandering buffoons in Congress who shill for the Armenian merchants of hate, would not have known Armenia from Albania were it not for the sweet smell of Armenian money and Armenian votes.
Fact : These same political prostitutes could not care less about America's overall national interests in not alienating our vital Turkish NATO ally. They care about Armenian money and votes. These charlatans could not care less about historical truth. Case in point : In 2000, the same committee heard testimony on this same matter from an American scholar who supported the Turkish side. Afterwards, the Armenian shill, Rep. Frank Pallone (NJ), blurted out in a rant : "I don't care what the historians say. I care about what my Armenian voters want from me, and they want me to pass this bill".
The long and short of it is, if you can guarantee a politician enough money and enough votes to get him elected, you can get him/her to badmouth Albert Schweitzer and Mother Teresa.
LoL, a perfect example of the stupidity and hypocrisy of conservative jackasses.
Democrats and liberals REPEATEDLY called for the U.S. to recognize the Armenian Genocide while Bush was in office. Conservatives claimed that it was foolish, that the Armenians had "exaggerated" and that it would weaken our standing with Turkey, a "moderate" Muslim country.
A former FBI agent claimed that she had TAPES of the Turkish ambassador boasting about how he had bribed Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert to shoot down the resolution back in 2006.
Funny how conservatives change their tune now that the American people have thrown them out? Absolutely hillarious.
You people are so pathetic.
The ship for Turkey to be an ally sailed when they demanded a bribe to help take out Saddam in the first place. That should have made it clear they stopped being allies and have just become another group that expects their bribe not to be active enemies, just quiet ones.
What the Turks will do now is what all enemies that you have been paying off do when you stop paying them off – openly oppose the interests of the U.S. at every turn. Or, more simply:
http://ghostwolf.dyndns.org/words/authors/K/Kipli...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/ap_on_re_eu/e...
Sweden recognizes the Armenian Genocide, actually recognizes it, not just has a committee send it up for a vote.
Pathetic, socialist, tukhas lehking, anti-Semitic, ball-less wonder Sweden.
And of course the Turks recall their ambassador, threaten damage to the relationship, blah, blah, blah.
The Turks need to be sucking up to Sweden to get into the EU, despite their inability to even come close to the equality requirements, but they are threatening the Swedes.
And the "President" is breaking a campaign promise and pressing Congress to not pass the resolution, while others look for any excuse possible to overlook, or even deny that it ever happened.
Its a sad day when the Swedes do a better job of manning up than the U.S. A really sad day.
The Armenian Genocide was one of the most horrific passages in all of human history. Read "The Burning Tigris", a history of the the genocide. This wasn't the machine-like genocide of the Nazi holocaust, it was thousands and thousands of Turks revelling in sadistic slaughter; little Armenian girls crucified naked in village squares, where they were taunted and slowly stoned to death by their laughing, dancing Muslim tormentors. Islam sanctions insane cruelty against "infidels". To deny this is to evil, pure and simple.
Screw our "alliance" with Turkey. You seem to forget – if you ever knew – that they denied our military passage through their airspace when we went into Iraq. At the bottom, they are America-hating Muslims. We should work to destroy them.
um.. ok.. so you're saying that as long as the people who perpetrated the crime are dead, there is no need for anyone living to apologize? wtf? so according to your logic, then there is no need for ANYONE in the world right now to apologize or at least feel sorry/bad for ANYTHING like the holocaust, the Armenian genocide, or mass murder committed by the Japanese during World War II? what kind of BS is that? certainly nobody should be prosecuted for the crimes that their ancestors committed but to say that they shouldn't at least apologize to the victims is ridiculous. also, you're saying that constantly picking at historical scabs would ensure that the wounds will never heal… so what's your solution then? just forget about the fact that these tragedies ever happened, hold hands and sing kumbaya? we need to remind ourselves of these tragedies to ensure that they do not happen again.. forgetting about them and pretend that they never happened is not going fix anything.
What justice occurred with that House resolution? Enlighten me. I'm truly perplexed but willing to find out how justice occurred.
Get over yourself! Bunch of liberal morons!
ndanielson-
Just because native american technology laged behind a couple hundred years doesnt mean it was okay for us to push them off their land and nearly wipe them out. And the whole. "if not us then someone else would've" argement doesnt hold water.
Im sure China will be using your logic when they destroy the American economy:
If they werent buying our debt and keeping their currency below market value,
surley someone else would.
The American citizen sat on his freedom to long.
Land is won through military and money, China has both.
I dont know Randy, and he doesnt have a profile,
but I took his comment in jest-
I also liked the Highlander quote!
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!
However, in the case of Genoside, there have been several.
Further more,
I think you missed the point of my posting.
So here it goes: (Hope this makes me ambassador to Turkey)
A lot of nations, us included, have history that we are not proud of. It is unfair to rake Turkey over the coals for decisions made before the formation of the modern country. At the same time we can not allow murder on a massive scale to be swept under the rug of history.
A better idea is to come togather on common ground. Acknowlage missteps of our forfathers, and work togather to isure that such history is not repeated. Turkey might not feel unfairly targeted if we admit our wrongs at the same time.
Plus its high time Japan admitted their horrific treatment of china's citizens.
Those who dont learn from history repeat it.
Who's saying that we're learning anything by the House passing a resolution? That's about as effective as the UN passing a resolution.
Both are worthless!
well, too bad the Portuguese ( or for that matter Dutch, French, MUSLIM!?) didn't ship over an army or two to protect the indians until they caught up technologically, huh? Are you for real? If China did come spoiling for a fight, they wouldn't face a land of tribes armed with bows and arrows, dressed in animal skins. Which country sailing the seas would have done any different to the indians than the \”evil white man\” you so decry? Again, WHAT FREAKIN' LANGUAGE WOULD YOU BE SPEAKING!?
well, too bad the Portuguese ( or for that matter Dutch, French, MUSLIM!?) didn't ship over an army or two to protect the indians until they caught up technologically, huh? Are you for real? If China did come spoiling for a fight, they wouldn't face a land of tribes armed with bows and arrows, dressed in animal skins. Which country sailing the seas would have done any different to the indians than the \”evil white man\” you so decry? Again, WHAT FREAKIN' LANGUAGE WOULD YOU BE SPEAKING!?
China dosent need its army, they will simply buy us out.
Hope you speak Mandarin.
祝你好运兄弟
Okay whats worse-
Lets say you and I argue face to face-
I get out of hand and kick you in the nuts,
would you rather I admit that I was wrong,
accept responsibility for my actions and promise to not do it again.
Or me just say it never happened and the incident was missunderstood?
It's not about the apology–it's about setting the record straight. The point is that Turkey is lying about history. They are denying their actions. What if we re-wrote all our history books to say that slavery actually did not exist in the United States, that the Africans came over on those ships voluntarily and they wanted to work on the plantations? That they actually were free to go if they wanted to. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? It would also be an injustice to all African Americans to change history that way. So why is it okay for Turkey to change history?
Why should the US build a relationship with Turkey based on lies and denial of Armenian Genocide?
The United State of America is regarded as the only country in the world with a "universal constitution." As a result, the US is often looked to in questions regarding moral responsibilities related to human rights and justice. In the spirit of justice and moral, therfore US should recognize the Armenian Genocide and male a call on Turkey to face her bloody past!
As a result of the genocide, any trace of Armenians is being wiped away by Turkey from their native homeland in today’s East Turkey .
Turkey’s chronic inability to face the truth is cutting the Turkish people off from the rest of the world. Once again a coalition of brainwashed ultra-Nationalists and Turkish palace historians, supported by a multi-million dollar public relations campaign on behalf of Turkish holocaust-deniers have launched their annual aggressive campaign against the truth and recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Denial of genocide is nothing but a second killing. The current orchestrated campaign of the Turkish government is just as systematic, coordinated and criminal as the genocide carried out in 1915!
logistically, how would they invade??? I do speak Smith and Wesson, with a little Ruger and Weatherby accent for the discriminating ear.
again, they dont need to invade- their military strength backs up their "Economic Warfare."
When we owe them more than the DOW is worth, they could simply buy out every single publicly traded company in America.
Okay Ive argued this tangent with you long enough-
At no point did I say "evil whit men"
my forefathers include Daniel Boon, my family pressed America's borders all the way to the west coast. They belived in "manifest destiny."
Yet those same actions, in today's context would be war crimes.
The Trail of Tears runs through my home town,
yet Im still proud of the nation my forefathers built.
You still ignored the point of the posting and that is that neary every nation has points in its histroy it would like to gloss over. The other nations you named included- we all need to own up to it so that we dont repeat those mistakes.
I was going to give you a +1,
then I remember that Biden, Obam, and the international community all need to be tell Iran that they can build nukes and hang protesters, and stoot students in the streets. Also they cant continue to fund terrorist in Afghanistan.
So no +1,
but the spirt was there, and youve given me no reason to think youre pro-Iran-gets-nukes so no -1 either.
Never demand anything that you cannot take by force, Mr. (fill in the blank) Hu Jintao.
Ample evidence shows that morality and Armenians are two mutually exclusive terms. Armenian fanatics attack viciously, sometimes with physical threats and actual violence, anyone who dares to question their odious canard of a genocide. They rant and rail against "genocide deniers". They even invent words that aren't in the dictionary, e.g, "denialist".Then, they turn around and Armenia, at its Yerevan University, awards an honorary degree to that most famous, the grandaddy of all Holocaust deniers, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran. Go figure!
Eddy, mon ami, please take that high moral road of yours and keep walking until you leave the land which was stolen from my people. If the Turkish people who have lived in eastern Turkey for one thousand years don't have a right to be there today because Armenians were there earlier than Turks, then, by your own logic, you absolutely don't have a right to live here because the Native Americans owned this land for 30,000 years before you stole it.
Oh, as you return the stolen goods to the rightful owners, the Native Americans, don't forget to pony up that 40 acres and a mule that were promised to the Africans whom your ilk enslaved.
As for the Turkish people being cut off from the rest of the world, NUTS! Are you people that delusional? Are you out of your everlovin' minds? Turkey is expecting a record 30 million tourists this year. How many is Armenia expecting? Contrary to their delusions, it is Armenia that is becoming a pariah. These Armenians can't seem to get along with anyone. They are pushy, arrogant, overbearing.They make outlandish demands from every neighbor of theirs, including Georgia. If it is Turkey that is becoming cut off, then why is it that it is Armenia who is begging Turkey to open its border for Armenians.
I believe Turkey should never open this border. People of Glendale rue the day they allowed Armenian settlers in their city. It won't be long before these pushy Armenian settlers try to shove the native people of that city out, claiming that Glendale is a "historic" part of Armenia. A few years ago, a U.S. diplomat quipped : "If a lone Armenian took a piss at the North Pole a hundred years ago, the Armenians would claim the North Pole as "historic Armenia".
If what you suggest actually came to pass, it would be the LAST action you would ever take.
But, I see that you're incapable of actual discussion on the facts.
Islam is a religion of peace.
Pamela:
I took some time to leave some commentary on the issue on your "Atlas Shrugs" blog. I hope you and the readers on this blog take the time to read and respond.
Sincerely,
There is NO Santa Claus (aka TINSC)
It is a very interesting story!
Wow,
you lack humor and logic-
how sad.
PRETRIB RAPTURE POLITICS
Many are still unaware of the eccentric, 180-year-old British theory underlying the politics of American evangelicals and Christian Zionists.
Journalist and historian Dave MacPherson has spent more than 40 years focusing on the origin and spread of what is known as the apocalyptic "pretribulation rapture" – the inspiration behind Hal Lindsey's bestsellers of the 1970s and Tim LaHaye's today.
Although promoters of this endtime evacuation from earth constantly repeat their slogan that "it's imminent and always has been" (which critics view more as a sales pitch than a scriptural statement), it was unknown in all official theology and organized religion before 1830.
And MacPherson's research also reveals how hostile the pretrib rapture view has been to other faiths:
It is anti-Islam. TV preacher John Hagee has been advocating "a pre-emptive military strike against Iran." (Google "Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism.")
It is anti-Jewish. MacPherson's book "The Rapture Plot" (see Armageddon Books etc.) exposes hypocritical anti-Jewishness in even the theory's foundation.
It is anti-Catholic. Lindsey and C. I. Scofield are two of many leaders who claim that the final Antichrist will be a Roman Catholic. (Google "Pretrib Hypocrisy.")
It is anti-Protestant. For this reason no major Protestant denomination has ever adopted this escapist view.
It even has some anti-evangelical aspects. The first publication promoting this novel endtime view spoke degradingly of "the name by which the mixed multitude of modern Moabites love to be distinguished, – the Evangelical World." (MacPherson's "Plot," p. 85)
Despite the above, MacPherson proves that the "glue" that holds constantly in-fighting evangelicals together long enough to be victorious voting blocs in elections is the same "fly away" view. He notes that Jerry Falwell, when giving political speeches just before an election, would unfailingly state: "We believe in the pretribulational rapture!"
In addition to "The Rapture Plot," MacPherson's many internet articles include "Famous Rapture Watchers," "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy" and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" (massive plagiarism, phony doctorates, changing of early "rapture" documents in order to falsely credit John Darby with this view, etc.!).
Because of his devastating discoveries, MacPherson is now No. 1 on the "hate" list of pretrib rapture leaders!
There's no question that the leading promoters of this bizarre 19th century end-of-the-world doctrine are solidly pro-Israel and necessarily anti-Palestinian. In light of recently uncovered facts about this fringe-British-invented belief which has always been riddled with dishonesty, many are wondering why it should ever have any influence on Middle East affairs.
This Johnny-come-lately view raises millions of dollars for political agendas. Only when scholars of all faiths begin to look deeply at it and widely air its "dirty linen" will it cease to be a power. It is the one theological view no one needs!
With apologies to Winston Churchill – never has so much deception been foisted on so many by so few!
[Also Google "David Letterman's Hate, Etc."]
Obama blows wherever the winds blow him!
[...] though Nero and Commodus lacked a sympathetic press corps that functioned as a propaganda bureau without the honesty of a specific title, they ruled with an [...]
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