Another stunning rebuke to Barack Obama: Armenian American groups have for decades sought Congressional recognition as genocide of the murder of just under two million Armenian Christians by the Islamic Ottoman Empire. Last week, they cleared an important hurdle in getting this recognition: the House Foreign Affairs Committee, over Obama’s opposition, approved a resolution calling the Turkish mass murder of the Armenians a genocide.
The Islamic supremacists haven’t infiltrated as deeply as they thought. As long as Turkey was secular, we pretended it wasn’t genocide. And now Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who once said that “there is no moderate or immoderate Islam, Islam is Islam and that’s it,” is taking on the secular military in Turkey. Traditionally, the secular army kept Turkey a “moderate” secular Muslim country, but with the election of the devout Muslim Erdogan, Turkish secularism is on the ropes. And now that Turkey is returning to the dark side, we don’t have to lie for jihadis anymore.
The Turks were furious over the Foreign Affairs Committee vote, and withdrew their ambassador to the U.S. Turkish President Abdullah Gul issued a veiled threat: “Turkey will not be responsible for the negative results that this event may lead to.”
Turkey threatens…what? Another genocide?
This should be interesting. Obviously the Muslim world thinks it can bully the U.S. President. Let’s watch and see if Obama heeds the decent and humane call from the American people, or heeds Islam.
Unfortunately, the answer is already clear. The committee’s vote is difficult for the Islamophilic Obama. He campaigned on the promise that he would officially recognize the Turkish mass murders of Armenians as a genocide. As with so many of his other promises, Obama lied and has backtracked since he became President, as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton admitted Thursday: “Circumstances have changed in very significant ways,” she said. And she said that the Obama Administration would oppose the resolution as it goes to Congress:
We do not believe that the full Congress will or should act upon that resolution and we have made that clear to all the parties involved.
Change you can’t believe in.
And my, isn’t Turkey very thin-skinned and sensitive, considering its propensity for genocide? The Turks should be busying themselves apologizing and making amends, as Germany did after World War II. But no. Instead the non-Muslim world is still stepping and fetching and covering up for over a millennium of jihad wars, land expropriations, enslavements, and humiliations of the conquered non-Muslim populations on three continents — and genocide.
Abdullah Gul also said:
We are determined to normalise Turkish-Armenian ties but we are against this being secured through the intervention of third parties and through pressure.
This is rich. How can you normalize relations when you mass murdered close to two million of the Armenian people and won’t admit it, or express regret and apologize? It was a genocide, and the covering up of Islamic genocides must end.
Let us not forget the other Christian minorities who were massacred in the same way and for the same reason. Approximately 250,000 Assyrian-Chaldeans were massacred, as well as 250,000 Greeks. Countless others were forced to convert to Islam, especially young girls. Another thing we should remember about this period is that Greece itself was occupied by the Ottoman empire for centuries, as well as Bulgaria and so on, and the non-Muslim populations in all those countries were terrorized for centuries. These nations were only freed because of World War I and the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
This is a history we must not forget.
Above all, we must not forget that the Nazis were inspired by the Armenian genocide.
The Turks used primitive gas chambers and developed other murderous templates that were later adopted by the Nazis. Hitler was inspired by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who was an officer of the Ottoman empire who participated in the Armenian genocide, and who during World War II met with Hitler and frequently with high Nazi officials. During the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946, Adolf Eichmann’s assistant, Dieter Wisliczeny, testified that Mufti was a central figure in the planning of the genocide of the Jews:
The Grand Mufti has repeatedly suggested to the Nazi authorities – including Hitler, von Ribbentrop and Himmler – the extermination of European Jewry. … The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan… He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures.
Covering for Islam’s acts of genocide encourages more Islamic genocide. Think Sudan. Congress should recognize the Armenian genocide for what it was, and call on the Turks to stop covering up and take responsibility for what they did. Barack Obama should do the same thing.
And the media should finally tell the truth.
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When I was in Turkey last summer the Turkish people that I met loved America. Yes even the Muslims. They were glad that America had woken up to the threat of extremist Islam as they had been fighting it for many years and were glad to have a partner. Yes they were Muslims.
I also met Christians who felt they were accepted in Turkey as they had not ever felt in other mostly Islamic countries.
Now truly I didn't meet everyone or a majority of people in Turkey, but I think I got a good feeling for the general population.
I'm not sure right now is really a good time to start alienating our allies in that part of the world. What good thing will come of this vote and is it worth creating ill will among the Turkish people?
A friend visited both Turkey and Greece about 30 years ago, and found no animousity among the commoners. The tension between the countries is created elsewhere. It is not grass roots.
Actually, the Muslims hid Jews in Turkey during WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_...
The truth doesn't fit your anti-Muslim tirades.
Yep as a presidential candidate Obama did indeed state that he would fight to recognize this as a genocide. How useful it is to stand by your principles…
Christians were persecuted in the country of our allies, the Soviets (Christians were not, largely, persecuted in Nazi Germany).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Chris...
A lot of Soviets "immigrated" to Israel….where they spit on Christians today:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?it...
Why does the Christian majority of the US allow our government to continue to prop up these violent anti-Christian regimes?
wikipedia? are you 13?
A couple good cartoons about Obama's "truthfulness" at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/truthf...
Also a humorous cartoon about our "Founding, Fondling, and Fumbling Presidents" at
http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/politi...
You don't quote Wikipedia and then come on here and expect people to buy it, lock, stock and barrel. That's your first error.
Your second error is pushing the old lie that Hitler didn't persecute Christians. Hitler shut down churches bit by bit, carting off those who wouldn't go along with his plans, and those who did oppose him openly, such as the Order of the White Rose, were executed.
Your third error is thinking that the USSR is still in existence.
Your fourth error is thinking that a numerically insignificant sect of Jews spitting on Christians is indicative of all of Israel.
I too think this is a stupid resolution; what good is an apology going to do the people most affected (the dead)? Nothing. Besides that, it wasn't the government of Turkey that did this — it was the Ottoman Empire. I know that the whole ascent of militant Islam is a problem, but to demand state apologies is just more feel-good liberalism.
Ah yes.
Here we go, on another Crusade.
Start the countdown. The anti-Zionists are going to show up in about 5,4,3,2,1 seconds………..
Thank you for this very timely piece. Two million Christian Armenians slaughtered a century ago should not be swept away heartlessly. I suggest his next trip be to Armenia, rather than Indonesia. Such a gesture could speak volumes for him and uphold some accountability for these atrocious acts.
Yes, without that Native American genocide, I am sure North America would be chatting in a true N American dialect. Only which one? My guess, is that we'd all be speaking Portuguese, instead. I wonder if the Portuguese are into casinos…
Yep, without that Native American genocide, what language would you be speaking, genius?
As I said in another post, any references or assertions about Nazi Germany should be made in fluent German, citing primary sources only.
too late – 'whatreallyhappened" is already here.
I guess he took a break from cleaning Jimmy Carter's bedpan.
maybe our president will give one of his most sincerest of bows and all will be forgiven, it's easy to do when you have no spine. should any of us be really surprised that a person with a solid history of "not voting" should want to run away yet again? and to turkey: piss off and embrace the rest of the muslim world that you've been happy to ignore(publicly) for the past 6 decades. the muslim motto: practice one thing, preach another! i.e. call for our death and cry foul when we come to defend. better still, you can pack up the family and move to a country you despise in order have a (better)future.
Amen Robb… I do think that your reference goes back to G-d told Abraham. "I will bless those that bless thee and curse those that curse thee."
There's also the hundreds of years the Maronites (Lebanese Catholics) have been persecuted by the Ottomans, Syria, and all Muslims of the Levant. Much of my family remains in Lebanon. As Maronites, they live in constant fear; it has gotten worse since PM Hariri (with Syrian support) gave Hezbollah seats in the Lebanese Parliament. 40 years before the Armenian genocide, the Syrian Muslims (Greater Syria which included modern Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine) massacred the Maronites of Mt. Lebanon. This is a part of this region's history – a region that consists of Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Whether or not that history is good, it MUST be accepted. Slavery is a part of American history. Americans accept the horrors and the inhumanity of slavery. If modern Americans cannot be blamed for the American slavery, then modern Turks cannot be blamed for past genocides. Modern Americans accept that evil part of our history. Modern Turks must accept that evil part of their history.
Contrary to what the Obama administration believes, the American government calling the Armenian genocide what it is (a genocide) will not single-handedly destroy American relations with Turkey. Some Turkish politicians may use it to score political points. However, the Turkish government has too much invested in America to destroy relations because America called the Armenian genocide a genocide. Also, it's crazy to think the normal Turkish people won't be able to see through the rhetoric of some of their radical politicians.
well since the caspian sea pipeline end up in Turkey – the US govt won't allow such a resolution to the floor. both reps and dems know it would cost us everything we fought in afghanistan for…..namely, the BTC pipeline…
Why did it take us 100yrs to call this what it is?
It was a GENOCIDE!
While we're on the subject we should point out Japan's activites in China prior to WW2,
the Russians before, during, and after WW2,
& the Surbian Genocide.
Also here in the USA we need to own up to our treatment of Native Americas.
Its sad but true, these ideas and practies have been around for centuries,
modern people should acknowalge the mistakes and tragites of the past.
However that does not mean that we are responcible for the actions of our forefathers.
we all must denounce these actions, admit our faults, or else they will happen again.
Indeed it does.
So you feel that Germany shouldn't have to recognize the holocaust because they are no longer the Third Reich? One of my best friends is Armenian. His family escaped the Armenian Holocaust, and came to this country. They kept their roots, as he still speaks Armenian fluently, was married by his Armenian priest, and he still feels strongly about how his people's slaughter has been, and still is, swept under the rug of history. It has nothing to do with Liberalism. Obviously you know of nobody whom this affects. The feelings are still strong, the people still feel that their family's losses should be recognized.
Interesting article from Breitbart:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EBES5G0...
They can't even take care of the illegal immigration problems here, and now Biden is in Israel, telling them where not to build houses.
Soviets also persecuted Jews, dumbass.
Okay, I think this is a time to ask WWBD. What Would Bismarck Do?
When the House of Representatives (or Senate) pulled this during the Bush administration, fellow conservatives were up in arms, because it could undermine us in the War on Terror by angering an important ally.
While it was horrific, our alliance with Turkey is important. And we should work to keep it.
Oh, Christ. And next you'll be telling us about WTC 7, right?
Unfotunately, with Erdogan the Islamists are now in power. His recent crackdown on the army is just a part of the ongoing campaign by the current Government to reverse Ataturk's secularisation (whilst never, of course, openly admitting it).
Ahhh- sooner or later, every troll reveals his ugly antisemitism.
Came up for air, did he?
IRS was referring to the request for turkey to apologize for the genocide as being liberalism. I agree with YOU, that wanting world aknowledgement has got nothing to do with liberalism. Sweeping it under the rug has EVERYTHING to do with liberalism.
NO, you are referring to revisionist history from a worthless source. The Grand Mufti from Jerusalem (the Muslim religious leader) was in cahoots with Hitler, the SS, and even drew up plans for the expansion of ovens for numerous concentration camps. Muslims have never liked jews, ever since the jews of Medina refused to convert over to islam, while muhammed was still alive. That's around 1400 years ago.
Too bad the REAL truth doesn't fit your anti-semitic tirades, bobo. now sit in the corner, and don't let the "dunce cap" chafe your forehead.
And I'm supposed to be surprised by the fact that their are moderate Muslims who prioritize being a human being over the systemic hatred of Jews in the Muslim world?
Does that change the fact that there is still a systemic hatred of Jews built into the Koran and Hadith? While you're on Wikipedia, go ahead and look up the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
"Until further notice, the genocide that was a genocide will not be spoken of as a genocide until further notice because current changes make this whole 'genocide thing' impractical at this point."
Thank you for your consideration,
Hillary Rodham Clinton.
You cannot be a Christian and be against God's People. If you have a problem with the Jews, God has a problem with you and you'd better change, or else.
clever nolo ~
No, just no, just good god no.
I understand and agree with your point, but PLEASE know who you are invoking before you post.
Bismarck was a tyrant, a murderer, a kidnapper, an abuser (take a look at the young Wilhelm II's experiences in his 'care'), an aggressor, and the ideological ancestor of both the German Empire that would rip Europe up- and help the Turks do the same in the Near East- while financing the Bolshevik nightmare and of Hitler's Reich, which- while on opposite sides of the political Right/Left scale, took a LOT of inspiration from him-, and thus helped create one of the greatest lasting threats to the West in the modern era.
And as for the Turkish alliance, our alliance effectively became a dead note- if not when they denied us access for the invasion of Iraq- at least when they began to occupy parts of Northern Iraq without withdrawing.
A. The Soviet regime defacto ceased to exist in 1991, and we are hardly proping up its successor.
B. Contrary to popular belief, the Israelis have actually gone to GREAT lengths to prevent anti-Christian persecution (case in point, the deployment of the nascent IDF to prevent the Stern Gang from butchering several missionaries in the Old Quarter of Jerusalem in 1949).
Your point?
Sorry guv'ner, but I must FIRMLY reject your condition as a hater of Fascism and of Islamism.
Simply put, you are forgetting the MASSIVE fact that a lot of the primary sources weren't IN GERMAN to begin with (indeed, perhaps the majority of what we know comes not from the admittedly large amount of paperwork the Reich's bureaucracy left behind, but by the careful and thorough piecing together of various firsthand accounts by the Western Allies, most commonly in English and French). There is no good reason why counts such as the testimony of the Italian police department in Rome and of the French Marquis should be discounted for merely not appearing in German, and secondly using google means that those "fluent German primary sources" are likely not to pop up in the FIRST place.
I understand and agree with your motivations (I myself know all too well- as in lifetime ban all too well- how corrupt and nepotistic Wikipedia can be), I as a historian and a supporter of Israeli sovereignty cannot agree with you, and ask that you reconsider.
True, but just as many sold them out to the Germans. And besides, that does not change the fact that the Turkish government, both under the Ottoman Sultanate and the Kemalist "Republic", committed genocide against those who were supposedly its citizens.
It would very definitely be a Good Thing if we could get Congress to tell the truth.
About almost anything.
Likewise if we could get Obama to start telling the truth. And the media as well.
But I don't intend to start holding my breath …
Like a used car salesman, ol' Barry Soetero.. What to believe?
His loyalty to Muslims has been a fantastic thing to behold.. if you're Muslim. But as an Armenian-American, and a direct descendant of Armenians massacred by the Turks, I was hoping that the head-bobber would hold firm (really, it is hard to even type this knowing what we know now of the liar Hussein) on this promise made during his man-of-the-people campaign.
It isn't surprising, but it's very disappointing. The movie 'Ararat' by Atom Egoyan depicts the sad story very well. But thank you for an excellent article.. nice to know there is support out there outside of the Armenian community.
I get sick of our "treatment of the Native Americans" being an issue. If people on this continent weren't speaking English, what language would it be? The Dutch, the French, the Portuguese were all sailing the ocean blue at the time of Columbus. The indians were killing themselves and trying to take land from one another. The Southern indians were ritually cutting each other's hearts out of live sacrificial citizens, and those sailing the oceans were protecting their OWN borders from foreign invasion. This entire continent could just as well be speaking Portuguese as English. Because, there were no standing armies of Indians protecting their borders, were there? Land was acquired through WAR!
What about those of us that just don't give a damn about the Jews or Muslims? If they went to war and annihilated each other from the planet, I wouldn't shed a tear. Conversely, if they come to their senses and want to live in peace, I wouldn't express any joy or sadness.
Just like with the government, I would rather just be left alone by these two children pretending to be my friend. Israel is no friend of the United States. Does the name Jonathan Pollard come to anyone's mind? Don't buy the lies that Israel is a friend of the United States.
Is a Christian and I don't give a damn for Israel or the Jews any more than I would anyone else. I find it simply insulting that anyone would proclaim what you wrote as true. How incredibly stupid can someone be?
Why do you or anyone else care?
Biden shouldn't be telling the Israelis or anyone else what they can or cannot do.
Pure poppycock!
Apparently you are a "Christian" who has never read his Bible, let alone believed anything that might be found within. If you had, you would realize just how foolish the sentiment expressed in your comment is, and you would not have posted it. If.
Your attempt at moral equivalency regarding the Jewish/Muslim situation is pathetic. Someone as obviously ignorant of the facts as you no doubt are should refrain from commenting on such matters. You make yourself look ridiculous. Of course, seeing as your only real intent is to demonize the Jews, you're probably not too concerned with that. Right?
Why did it take us 100yrs to call this what it is?
"Who remembers now the destruction of the Armenians?"–Adolph Hitler
"Murder a few people and history will remember, murder a million people and no one will remember"–Adolph Hitler
I paraphrase that second quote but the essence of his intent is accurate.
This was an episode of history that I was surprised they never taught us in high school world history, especially considering the connection it had to the Nazi holocaust. I later read "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story" and Peter Balakian's "The Burning Tigris". Fascinating foray into the depravity of man.
The Soviets were Jews. Look up Trotsky's real name.
If you believe mistranslated and completely false Bibles only.
I know it was wrong but Armenians are really annoying.
All the dear hearts crying we should forget about this because it happened a hundred years ago — are you just as willing to let the Spanish Inquisition be forgotten?
Actually they are not a numerically insignificant sect.
However, they also spit on Jews. And throw rocks at them. And commit other general acts of violence against them.
How dare you mention other genocides – there can be only ONE. Lock this man up for Holocaust denial!
So long as we can correct the absurd claims of the Holocaust religionists. The Red Cross were actually IN THE CAMPS and estimated the deaths, due to typhus, was half a million. A far cry from some cockamamie story about gas chambers with unsealed wooden doors and deliberate extermination. And don't forget the fire pits which have been completely disproven along with more "Big Lies" about lampshades (turned out to be lamb skin) and soap.
One thinks Turkey makes the mistake of not acknowledging the slaughter of their Christian neighbors, inside and outside of Turkey. That is because they do not recognize this as genocide, but as the legitimate expression and doctrine of jihad. They cannot deny the commandments of the Koran as the motiviation and justification for the slaughter of the Christian Armenians.
And which versions, if any, do you view as not being "mistranslated and completely false," in which Robb76's original statement would be shown to be incorrect? Can you name a few? No, you can not.
God's people are the Christians. If you believe otherwise why don't you become a Jew, eh? Why would you choose to be excluded?
Scofield is where most of this nonsense emanates.
Let me apologize for all the past sins of EVERYBODY!
Was it genocide? Yes. Was it horrible and evil? Well, it was genocide, so duh!
Does it serve any USEFUL purpose to keep re-hashing the past? Should people who were not even alive be held to account? Not in my book…
Anybody who thinks modern Turks need to apologize should also ask themselves about apologies and reparations for slavery in America's past. Generational guilt is a Lefty device. You are not responsible or accountable for the acts of generations past, only your own actions (or in-actions).
With all respect due to Armenian immigrants (and Americans so descended) I have, and do know- Get over it! You can't change the past, bring back the dead or re-fight the war! Honor the dead by making sure it never happens again! I will stand with you.
Murder by reason of "group/ethnic/religious" membership is primitive crap and needs to never be allowed again. Constantly picking at historical scabs ensures the wound will never heal. Is not one of the current excuses of the terrorist devils their "historic" treatment at the hand of the "infidel"? Does America hold grudges?
Stop fighting old wars, stand strong in the current one. Something tangible is actually at stake- your freedom, and that of future generations.
Priorities…
hey Randy, Hitler had jewish ancestry. That didn't stop him from killing over 6 million of them. Try again.
Hey, Zebo and Randy, if You truly think that Jews were wrong, then so was Jesus. He was a Jew, not a christian. Those that followed him were jews, also. Christianity didn't really kick in until well after the apostles' death. Besides, Half of the bible is the Torah. So by excluding Jews, you exclude Half of your religion.
You couldn't pour piss out of a boot, if the instructions were written on the heel.
A bible believing christian is a Zionist. Period.
Almost never is. "Real" people are pragmatic/realistic. Wars are started by "politicians" no matter how selected or empowered. "Normal" people are happy to live their lives and trade freely for mutual benefit.
The "elite" classes start wars over petty jealousy or hunger for greater power.
Know any "racist" whites who bad mouth blacks, but when they meet one, or work with one, readily say "well, they're a "good" one". Dumb mindset and sorry-ass group-think…
Hey, Zebo, you knuckle dragging, mouth breathing idiot, if you prefer being judged by a jury of your peers, over a witch hunt, thank the Jews. They invented it. If you got a public education, thank the Jews also. They introduced the idea, with their own money and philanthropy for thousands of years. You are either woefully ignorant, or just plain racist. I can't figure it out yet. keep posting. the truth will appear.
BTW, i'm not a jew, but I do play one on TV.
mistranslated Randy? Do you have intimate knowledge of Latin?
Your logic is tucked away nicely behind your insanity. Accusing one of holocaust denial by pointing out a holocaust is so….muslim. or progressive. both fit the definition.
REALLY?!?!? you tool. Every country has had census takers for eons. So, mr. knowitall, tell me, where did the other 5.5 million jews hide? Do you seriously think that over 5 million people could just disappear?
Exactly. And those of us who know islam, or have read the qu'ran, the hadith and the suna, know that "kafir" are less than human. It is a religious duty for muslims to kill them whenever possible, unless the "kafir" are in a position of power, then the main job is "taqiyya" or lying to promote islam.
friggin cult.
Why shouldn't there be as many museums in the US (paid for by tax dollars) as there are for the "Holocaust"?
I couldn't finish the article for fear my head might explode! From what I read it seems thoughtful and well written, but…don't we have ENOUGH on our plates?! We are at such a critical point in our own history that I have become hardened and selfish regarding the problems other countries are having that don't have an immeditate and personal impact on us.
Museums for what? You didn't specify.
The "Holocaust" is every bit as real as the Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turk/Ottoman Empire was. I know some Armenians (first gen Americans, really). Doesn't negate my point.
Political "museums" deserve no taxpayer funding, historical ones not related to U.S. history and philosophy, ditto. Raise your money and do what you want. And don't answer about this or that museum funded by taxpayers, I don't know them all and didn't vote for any of them…
Free to open your own museum as you can afford.
I guess the short answer to your question is: Just as many – NONE!
It has everything to do with liberalism. Liberalism is a constant barrage of pointing fingers, making excuses, and not confronting issues. Let's call it PC. Liberals can't bring themselves to call genocide what it is, unless it is Americans committing it.
"Christians were persecuted in the country of our allies, the Soviets (Christians were not, largely, persecuted in Nazi Germany)."
Yeah, right about there you can go fuck yourself. My grandfather Rubin, was an Armenian who lost his entire family in the genocide while on vacation in America. Members of my father's faith were thrown in concentration camps because they refused to join the German Army during World War II.
Please correct the number of the victims to the following:
Armenians 1,500,000
Assyrians 750,000
Pontic Greeks 353,000
Because you mentioned 200,000 for Assyrians
May Assur Bless the sould of all
I have read the Article and Why do you call the Aramean (Syriac) genocide as the "Assyrian" genocide?
It's not the "Assyrian" genocide.
The assyrians do not exist anymore, Asyrians are extinct.
It's the Aramean (Syriac) genocide.
The people of Tur Abdin (south-east-turkey) are the Syriac people and the Syriacs are ethnic Arameans, please read the history.
Today the pseudo-Assyrians (East-Arameans) make propaganda.
We are the Syriac-Aramean people and not the Assyrian people.
please change, it is not the truth
I love it how some people on here are saying why do this since it was a hundred years ago that this happened but then talk about the American Indians which was over a hundred years ago. Or i am sure that they feel just fine in considering me a racist because i was born in Georgia and over 160 years ago some people in Georgia owned slaves. It is the same standards for everybody or nobody is to blame for something that happened before they where born. and FYI i consider what happened in Armenia genocide. Just like the Japanese did with the Chinese or Stalin did with people in his country. He made Hitler look like a beginner at killing people.
Turkish President Abdullah Gul issued a veiled threat: “Turkey will not be responsible for the negative results that this event may lead to.”
I say we send Gul Dukat in to deal with this issue. The Turks would be no match for the Cardassians.
"Christians were not, largely, persecuted in Nazi Germany"
Last I checked, Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holcaust#Jehovah.27s...
annielew: You say you are not sure right now is really a good time to start alienating our allies in that part of the world.
When would you suggest might be a good time to call a spade a spade and genocide a genocide? Whilst waiting for your comfort zone to arrive, do you think scuttling the truth because "the timing is wrong" is likely to intimidate the guilty, or embolden them? Also by waiting, is the supposedly free world's message to the true genocidal face of Islam, that theirs weren't (and aren't, as in Sudan) genocides, but will be when the time is right?
It is time for the free world to elect leaders with a spine.
Recognition of facts is not re-hashing history, it is preserving history. Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. As for the apology tour by our current President, he seems to think it is appropriate for him to apologies for his perception of Americas past sins, well Mr. Obama if recognising our past sins is so good for our national soul, why aren't you concerned about the national soul of Turkey? This is a President of double standards, double speak and sadly double cross.
The propaganda machine of the slick Armenian lobby started out in the 1920s with claims of three hundred thousand Armenian dead. In the tradition of Armenian hocus-pocus, Ms. Gelller has now jacked up the number to "just under two million". That is magic indeed! It is also magic that the Ottomans managed to kill 2 million out of a total Armenian population of 1.3 million. New math? You think?
But since Ms. Geller seems to be an expert on the Turkish-Armeno conflict of 1915, let us pose this question to her : How many Turkish, Kurdish, Muslim, Jewish citizens of the Ottoman Empire were slaughtered by the Armenian goon squads, before, during and after 1915?
A bit of research will show that the Armenian terror gangs like Dashnaks and Hunchaks of that era would make Osama bin Laden and his hoodlums look like mickey-mouse operators.
It takes chutzpah as large as the pre-surgery nose of Cher Sarkissian, and post-surgery size of Kim Kardashian's derriere, for Pamela Geller to to demand an accounting from today's Turkish nation, even as she, herself, shamelessly sits on the stolen property of the Native Americans. While very eminent historians like Bernard Lewis dispute the outlandish claims of the deceitful Armenian lobby, no one worth his salt disputes that mother of all genocides – that of the American Indians.
As Ms. Geller claims to be on the high moral road, would she kindly follow that road by packing her bags and exiting my land – the land that belonged to my ancestors for thirty thousand years, before Ms. Geller and her ilk exterminated them. And before she leaves, it might also behoove her to pony up that 40 acres and a mule that were promised to the freed African slaves. Armenian genocide? Nuts!
Not only did Turkey murder nearly 2 million Armenians during the dying days of Ottoman Empire but 500,000 Anatolian & Levantine Greeks who had inhabiting Turkey's southern coast and the Middle east for 3,000 years and drove another 2 million into exile.
The Turks while murdering Armenians and Greeks in their polygot empire at the same time also exterminated somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 Assyrian Christians largely in what is now Iraq. The Turks and their useful idiot stool pugeon apologists can deny that a genocide against Armenians, Grreks, and Assyrian Christians occurred but a search of newspaper stories of the years 1914-1923 in every significant country on six inhabited continents will verify the horrors of the age. Hitler and his minions tudied theTurks human extermination methods in formulating their "Final Solution".
The hoorors perpetrated by the Turks were so heinous that German diplomats and military personnel posted to their wartime ally protested the Turk's savagery against Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrian Christians.
The war against Islamist genocide IS the current one.
Allowing the Armenian Genocide to pass simply because someone else did it to some other people (never mind the number of Americans of Armenian heritage, many of whose ancestors came here because of this) is the best way to both guarantee that it will happen again and that no one will particularly care when it is done to us.
Oh wait, nobody does particularly care about the terrorist threat to America.
And nobody particularly cares about the oppression of other religious minorities, particularly Christians. 500 massacred in Nigeria anyone? Oh wait, you have not heard about that? How odd . . .
Yes, everything is wonderful.
Which is why the Orthodox Church is suing the Turkish government in the European Court for human rights violations.
Which is why a synangogue was invaded recently in Turkey.
Which is why the "secular" Prime Minister of "secular" Turkey is off getting an award in Saudia Arabia for service to Islam.
Which is why polls show Turks oppose equal rights for religions other than Islam.
Which is why Turkey claims the "Ottomans" committed the genocide, not them, but you cannot mention it anyway.
I know what's written in the Bible. I do not believe that the modern nation of Israel are God's "chosen people". That you do says more about you than it does about me.
A great point, Randy. People should heed to words of Christ about how to get into the Kingdom of His Father.
Then inform me of the facts, Vincent. I dare you to actually have some.
I have not intention of demonizing anyone. The modern State of Israel is not as friendly to the United States as you would pretend them to be. Sticking one's head down a hole would be more enlightening of the facts than your argument.
I will only mention Jesus Christ and Barabbas and not go into the whole story. Every Christian knows the story.
Everything I've learned outside of the public school system (I had both a private and public education) has been enormously more applicable than anything I learned in it.
A racist? That's great, since I almost married a Jewish woman. Oh! I get it now! I'm racist since she wasn't a black Jew! Not sure how you would know that though. Simply laughable! I suggest that you stop while you're ahead.
Why did the United States Congress feel compelled to formally say anything about it?
Simply stupid and a complete waste of time.
Justice is never a waste of time.
Old One,
You forgot to list the genocide of the Martians. Scientists now believe that a great Martian civilization once existed on Mars – that is, until the Terrible Turk got there and wiped it out.
Ms. Geller, since you are in the business of demanding apologies and "amends", how about demanding apologies and amends from the Armenians for the participation of French Armenians in France's slaughter of one million Algerians in that country, 1954-1962? Some of the victims are still alive – albeit maimed, due to torture by the Armenians.
Why do you not demand apologies and reparations for the atrocities committed by the notorious, Nazi-employed ARMENIAN BRIGADE? During WWII, this 20,000-strong goon squad of Armenians was tasked by the Nazis to hunt down and exterminate Jews in German-occupied countries. The Armenian butchers accomplished their grisly task much to the satisfaction of their Nazi employers.
Why do you not demand apologies and reparations from the Armenians for their 1990s sneak attack, occupation of Azerbaijan and massacres of thousands of Azeri people?
Why do you not demand apologies and compensation from Armenians for the murders committed in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s by the Armenian terror organization ASALA? In addition to dozens of Turkish diplomats, dozens more bystanders, including Turkish, American, French and Canadian citizens were slaughtered by this Armenian terrorist organization.
Why do you not demand apologies and reparations from the Greeks for their invasion and occupation of Turkey 1919-1922? In those years, the Greek hordes rampaged through Turkish Anatolia, raping, murdering, thieving, pillaging – that is, until the Turkish nation was able to form an under-manned, ill-equipped army which nonetheless was able to drive back the invading Greek hordes until they ran so far as to run out of ground, where they met their demise and surrendered at the shores of the Aegean Sea.
While you are at it, Ms. Geller, do you have plans to hold Sophia Loren, Carla Bruni (Mrs. Sarkozy) and Cicciolina accountable for the crimes of the Roman Empire?
And when are you going to pay reparations to me for genociding my people, and when are you leaving my land which you stole?
It was a different generation. Are ANY of the perps still alive? What meaning is there in apologizing for something that happened before you were born? I never suggested sweeping under the rug or writing it out of history.
The Arab/Muslim war against Africa and the resultant genocide? If you have good, reliable links, post 'em. One of the most ignored stories in the whole world. I've been telling people for years that our fine muslim brothers are spreading their message of peace and brotherly love to Africa through war, violence and genocide. Convert or die. Submit, or they rape, pillage and burn you home. I welcome any links you might share…
Since no one is looking to prosecute anyone, or even demanding compensation from anyone, or even asking for an apology, you question is irrelevant.
This whole thing is prompted by Turkish threats against the actions of our sovereign government in recognizing a historical event. Blackmailing Congress into not passing a resolution about it is merely the first step. In due course it will not be written out of history, but rewritten as a great even in the purification of the world.
As for reliable links, look around. You need to be willfully blind not to be able to find them these days, both of the general Islamic ethnic and religious cleansings of the last 14 centuries, or of the ongoing massacres.
Okay, we seem to be misunderstanding each other.
Is it appropriate for the U.S. Congress to adopt a resolution such as this? You think so, and I agree. They probably won't, and we both know why.
We were getting at different things. After re-reading our posts, I believe I was lacking in clarity in p.5 in my original post. My apologies…
As for links about Africa? Priorities. My reading list is very full, but if something new pops into my field of view I may pursue it.
I didn't say everything was "wonderful." I said that the citizens of Turkey I met supported the US in our fight against Islamic extremism.
I don't see how passing this resolution is going to change any of the things you mentioned. I think passing the resolution might harm our relations with the Turkish citizenry, and I really don't see what good is going to come out of it.
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