Rifqa Bary is the 17-year-old girl who converted from Islam to Christianity and fled from her family in fear for her life. For more than nine months now, the Islamic machine has been trying to make an example of her, as a warning that even in the U.S., those who try to leave Islam will fail. Rifqa’s entire legal strategy, meanwhile, has hinged on ignoring the Islamic aspects of the case, although Islam’s death penalty for apostasy is the only thing that explains why she is in danger. Instead, her lawyers are trying to obtain for her Special Immigration Juvenile Status (SIJS). And in this yet again her parents’ aggressive and manipulative attorney, Omar Tarazi, has outfoxed them.

This was her lawyers’ objective, the end run: if they could keep Rifqa out of her dangerous home environment and secure immigration status, then it didn’t matter how they did it, as long as the goal was achieved. What her legal team did not understand was the nature of the threat and the enemy Rifqa faced. They were playing by a set of rules that were inapplicable to the challenge they faced. By pretending that Sharia was not the elephant in the room, they were out-strategized.
I remember back last September when I spoke to Rifqa’s Florida attorney, John Stemberger, on the phone and asked him why apostasy was not being introduced. It defined the threat to her life. Without the motive, there was no threat. He insisted that it wasn’t necessary. He said there was no way she would be sent back to Ohio from Florida, where she had fled to get as far away from her father as possible. “No way” would she be made to go back to Ohio, Stemberger said. In order to get Rifqa sent back to Ohio, he explained, her parents would have to open a court case, and in order to do that they would have to admit to some kind of abuse. And Stemberger said they would never do that.
And yet Rifqa was sent back to Ohio, on October 27, 2009.

My point is, no matter how sure a thing is, there’s no such thing as a sure thing. Fast forward to February 2010:
Rifqa’s legal strategy has been reactive, not pro-active. They are being kept busy responding to motions by Rifqa’s parents’ aggressive lawyer, Omar Tarazi, who was chosen for the Barys by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an un-indicted co-conspirator in a case involving funding for the terrorist group Hamas. The worst example of how Tarazi fooled Rifqa’s lawyers was that he compelled them to agree to a deal have Rifqa plead guilty to “unruliness” to secure dependency, and then reneged on his part of the deal once the guilty plea had been entered. The guilty plea continues to have negative ramifications for those who love Rifqa and have helped her. Using the “unruly” plea as a pretext, criminal investigations are proceeding and charges are pending against the Christian pastors, Brian Williams and Blake Lorenz, who helped Rifqa when she fled from her home.
Now, on Rifqa’s Special Immigrant Juvenile Status, Tarazi has outmaneuvered Rifqa’s lawyers again. Why hasn’t Rifqa’s legal team demanded an investigation by child services into the abuse and death threats in Rifqa’s home? The eligibility requirements for Special Immigrant Juvenile Status demand it. The immigrant minor must not be able to reunite with her parents “due to abuse, neglect, abandonment, or a similar basis found under state law.” All Rifqa’s lawyers have is a guilty plea to unruliness from Rifqa, and no establishment of abuse at all. In fact, in the stipulation to dependency, the lawyers on both sides were at pains to put on the record before the court the fact that the stipulation was not based upon abuse or neglect. To support Rifqa’s abuse claim they’d have to get into Islamic apostasy law, and they don’t want to do that.
John Stemberger, who is still directing Rifqa’s legal strategy, recently wrote: “No lawyer who understands dependency law agrees that seeking political Asylum in the US makes any sense.…Rifqa’s immigration status can be resolved as a Dependent of the State of Ohio without any Asylum claims.”
I disagree. Apostasy asylum should have been Rifqa’s safety. They should be applying for it now. They should have applied for it yesterday.
What Tarazi is doing is running out the clock so that Rifqa is without immigration status when she turns 18 this August. Will authorities then deport her? There is no way of knowing for sure, but CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood have infiltrated senior levels at the State Department so deeply that it is a distinct possibility. Certainly that new office in the State Department devoted to outreach to the Islamic world and reporting directly to Secretary Clinton might deem it “helpful” to send her back. I think that’s what CAIR and the Barys want: for the whole family to go back to Sri Lanka, which was the plan after members of the Noor mosque spied on Rifqa and told her parents of the conversion. The bags were packed.
And in Sri Lanka, as Rifqa herself has said, she could be killed or institutionalized with no unwelcome scrutiny interfering in the application of Islamic law. But instead of reporting on any of this, the media’s coverage of the Rifqa Bary case has been almost criminal. It’s dhimmi media, for sure. But in the case of the immigration question, I must ask, why isn’t the media even asking?

Take, for example, the Columbus Dispatch, the anti-Christian, pro-jihad home of the compromised reporter Meredith Heagney, who cheerfully donned a hijab and published a whitewashed report when she visited the Noor mosque. The Dispatch reported that the Bary family’s “immigration status has been unclear,” but also says that Angela Lloyd, Rifqa’s attorney, said that Rifqa was an “undocumented immigrant.”
If the parents’ immigration status is “unclear” (which it is not, as I broke the story of their illegal paperwork here), how can Rifqa be illegal? How can her parents be one thing and Rifqa be another, and why haven’t these tax evaders been deported?
CBS News likewise reports that “the immigration status of the parents is unclear” and snarks: “Ironically, Rifqa Bary may not like her parents’ faith, but she may need them for their papers.” And the Associated Press quoted Lloyd noting that her parents were “pursuing their own immigration relief” and saying: “Unlike her parents, if reconciliation fails, at 18 then she is without legal status.”
That’s all the media is saying about the immigration issue. They have shown no curiosity in the larger implications. Rifqa is still not eligible for Special Immigration Juvenile Status, and the clock is ticking.
Her only shot now is apostasy asylum – and a new legal team.






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573 Comments
Pam, who appointed Rifqa's legal team and why haven't any of the more powerful Christian legal groups taken up her cause, like the Thomas Moore Center or the ACLJ? Shouldn't her defense be in the hands of more seasoned professionals who are accustomed to doing battle with groups like CAIR?
Thanks,
Juan Medén
I too am wondering why no one has stepped up to help out… clearly there are much better ways and people to address her legal needs and defense. I am not aware of the laws and court rules in that area… but isn't the plea invalid if the agreement is not adhered too… especially if it is accepted in a court of law? I hope to contiue reading more about this matter. Thank you for your coverage so far as I had thought the matter was over.
This is what happens when the enemy become adept at manipulating our culture and our laws to further their ends.
Sharia law is a violent tyranny on America. We must replace any government officials that are accommodating Sharia, and we need to further stigmatize any defense of Sharia in the U.S. and around the world. This is the battle. We are the battlefield. Live free or die.
Juan and Ian are exactly correct! Christian, at least Conservative, lawyers specializing in these areas should be helping with Rifqa defense. This legal battle has far-reaching consequences for America and for Christianity.
Someone posted the (paraphrased) question, Why is it that, when Christians are being slaughtered with machetes by Muslims, American Christians don't get as upset as Muslims do when cartoons mocking Mohammed are published?
Muslims are battling non-Muslims with absolutely everything they have at their disposal! We either battle to defeat them or we lose rights and lives.
How long before she turns 18? She can then declair herself independent.
Honor killings in this country are hushed up, as one example in Buffalo lawyers deny previous statements of the beheading murderer twisting it as an understandable reaction of being inferior to a woman. That her father's words are not chargable is twisted for I would be charged if I threatened my daughter with death and there is no precident of honor killing in my religion.
I'm just wondering if she is returned to her family and nothing happens, will Geller be back here to write about how she was wrong for her hysterical rantings, or will she just go merrily along without noticing?
That's what I was thinking, too, but apparently that will immediately put her at risk of deportation. I fear that our government will do all it can to aid and abet the parents in regaining custody of her one way or another.
Please explain how this is a relevant or helpful post. She has already been threatened with death, should Pamela just shut up about it??
"Muslims are battling non-Muslims with absolutely everything they have at their disposal! We either battle to defeat them or we lose rights and lives."
That is exactly what's wrong with this debate. This story is not about "battling Muslims" or our rights and lives. It's about a 17 year old girl who had a fight with her parents and ran away from home (with the help of adults who weren't a part of the family). Either she's correct and her father made a threat (which may or may not indicate a likelihood of him carrying it out), or she's making it up (or exaggerating) because she was angry with him.
I really hope we don't reach the day when our kids are given free rein to run away when they think we are being too strict (or just won't give them what they want).
CBS News likewise reports that “the immigration status of the parents is unclear” and snarks: “Ironically, Rifqa Bary may not like her parents’ faith, but she may need them for their papers.”
My God! What kind of person could say this and sleep at night?
I also strongly suspect those that those of Rifqa's legal team are either idiots or they are anti Christian…the girl needs better representation….
How do you know she was threatened with death? How do you know exactly what was said or the situation? Have you ever said something in the heat of an argument that you later regretted (or never meant in the first place)?
I'm hearing a lot of talk about Islam and our future, when the ONLY thing relevant is the safety and well-being of this 17 year-old girl. People need to stop mixing their arguments and deal with the facts of this individual case.
This family's personal problems are not a forum for all of us to monkey-pile on with our fears and political (or religious) ideology.
We are doomed to Sharia Law taking over in our country if we don't get a handle on it soon! They are brilliant at using our system against us as you said….it makes me tremble.
What if she is sent back to her parents is in fact murdered?
Des,
"Either she's correct and her father made a threat (which may or may not indicate a likelihood of him carrying it out), or she's making it up (or exaggerating) because she was angry with him. "
He may carry out the threat? Quite a chance to take given recent murders of American girls by their Muslim fathers and brothers. To site a recent example, a young woman here in Phoenix ran over by her father because she was rejecting Islam. Oh well, what's one more dead girl, right?
That would be horrible. However, we don't rip apart families based on our premonitions of what might happen. The police investigated and there was a hearing. They found nothing to support the allegation or any danger she might be facing.
Exactly when did we start ignoring the police in our quest for social justice? Seriously, did I wake up in Bizzaro-world?
So should we run in and "rescue" every Muslim girl in America? Exactly how many do you suppose haven't been murdered? You take a handful of high profile cases, then decide there is some divine right to mob mentality based on it.
We depend on the police to enforce the laws. The case is being heard in court. Everything that can be done is being done. The hysterical rantings about what might happen are anything but helpful.
"I am sure you would be the first person taking her word for it if she said her Father molested her. "
I'm not sure what you're basing your assumptions on, but rest assured it isn't the facts.
You always listen to a child who says that they have been abused, molested, or are in imminent danger. But if the police investigate and find nothing to support the allegation, you don't have citizens trying to run in and forcibly "rescue" the child from their parents. We have laws for a reason, and I believe in our system of justice. It's not always perfect and people pay the price sometimes, but the alternative is far, far worse.
I think the police and social services should fully investigate. I think every precaution should be taken (which is exactly what has happened here).
I'm curious what you think should happen. Then I'm curious if you'd feel the same if a child told a Liberal teacher that her Christian parents would "kill her" if they found out she was pregnant, so the teacher drove her across state lines to an abortion clinic and paid for it.
Would you consider that teacher a hero too?
My thoughts, too. Why wouldn't the authorities make sure she is safe?
Des,
We all know kids exaggerate, become angry, manipulate to get their way. Having 5 daughters I've dealt with that, even with some of their friends who've come to our family for help.
What do you think the chances are a teen, angry with restrictive parents, would chose to go to another restrictive environment? In other words, Rifqa goes to hang out at a pastor's house? Runaway teens usually go where they can "be free" – like the streets of LA or New York – that is if they don't have any wild friends they can hide out with.
Does our government always act in the best interest of "the kids"? Remember Elian Gonzalez? Being snatched and returned to Castro worked out well for him, right? Remember all the children killed at Waco?
Mr. Tarazi better pray to allah Rifqa goes untouched.
You stupid conservatives are always freaking out about Muslims killing these people or those people. It's their culture! Who are we to decide what's right or wrong?
god you people are stupid.
"Remember Elian Gonzalez? Being snatched and returned to Castro worked out well for him, right? Remember all the children killed at Waco?"
Bingo! I knew that's the kind of people who were so exorcised about this case. Here's a couple of tidbits for you….the government did right in Elian's case (other than the over-reaction with the swat team taking him at gunpoint). He went back with his father, where he belonged. What happens after that is none of our business, because it's their family (even if they make choices we despise).
Waco was a case of a bunch of idiots following a loon who claimed to be Jesus, then had sex with their children. The death cult (who preached the end of the world necessitated all their weapons) killed themselves when they knew they couldn't escape. It's not the children's fault that they were placed in that situation, nor was it the government's fault that the parents did that to their kids. If you're one of those conspiracy nuts that thinks the ATF intentionally burned down the compound and murdered the children, then I know exactly how seriously to take any other comments you make.
"You stupid conservatives are always freaking out about Muslims killing these people or those people. It's their culture! Who are we to decide what's right or wrong?"
Some comments just leave one speechless
If she does, will everyone here apologize for smearing his good name?
Who says their not?
There aren't a great number of facts to attribute to this case. Therefore, we, as a nation, should act based on what facts there ARE.
1. We can't POSSIBLY know what's in this father's mind.
2. We DO know that Sharia law supports this idea. Death to apostates is PART of Islam. Frankly, its one of the defining characteristics.
3. In court proceedings, we listen to testimony and give more or less credence to the witnesses we find to be more credible.
4. The "state" almost always errs on the side of caution with children. ESPECIALLY if there's the potential for abuse.
5. Based on the relevant facts I just laid out, it's better to be safe than sorry.
Islam is an evil, insidious religion that plays upon the small and weak. The name means "SUBMIT" and that is what the Koran requires of it's adherents. If people won't submit and convert, they're to be killed. It says the same thing about an apostate, but it's to a greater degree.
Des, you should learn before you speak.
Gee, is "every Muslim girl" claiming death threats from her family? That's news to me! It appears to be, based on facts, that Muslim girls rejecting Islam are the victims of honor killings. Call them a "handful of high profile cases" if you want, but that is the reality.
To be perfectly clear, I would feel the same if some wacko Christian sect was honor killing any daughters or sons leaving that sect. If the Amish start running down their kids with their horses and buggies, I'm all for the protection of those Amish kids who chose to become "outsiders" and are threatened with death.
Seems to me this is a practice – honor killings – found only in the Muslim community. Let me know if you can cite "high profile cases" involving Jews, Christians, Hindus, Amish, etc here in the US.
"… it's their culture!"
Yes, Anon, killing IS their culture! Killing their children, killing our children. Killing YOUR children. Even killing YOU.
Who are we to decide what's right and wrong? We're a society joined together and bound by LAWS, including those that say murder is wrong! Maybe in your empty-headed world, it's okay to kill a girl because of her beliefs. Not in ours.
"5. Based on the relevant facts I just laid out, it's better to be safe than sorry."
And whose decision should it be as to when that choice should made? Yours? Are you setting yourself up as the final arbiter of right and wrong?
Funny, I thought that's what our legal system was for. I guess we should just ignore them when we don't like the results, eh?
Let's underground railroad this thing. I've got a spare bedroom and I imagine so do many others. Move her somewhere safe away from her parents and the law. The government ruined Elian's life. They will end Rifqa's. Let he run out the clock until she becomes a legal adult at age 18 hidden away from harm. Even if it means a tough life of constantly moving to stay one step ahead of those hunting her it's better than the alternative.
Here's what I think should happen (with a disclaimer that I am neither lawyer nor Child Protective Services expert): She should be allowed to #1) become an emancipated minor, and #2) seek some legal means of her staying in the U.S., be it political asylum, or some kind of visa, etc.
With respect to your example of the liberal teacher, I'm not going to debate hypotheticals.
To moron anon;
I guess we shouldn't worry too much about it when they kill you.
… Ah, nevermind.
What is the point of a free country founded on the unalienable rights of the individual if we won't even take the time to defend one threatened girl?
(Yes, I know it might be a false story, but we must put all of our energy into CONFIRMATION)
Oh dear, Des. You know nothing about Shariah, or the concepts of taqqiya and jihad, do you?
Pretty sure 'anon' was being sarcastic.
Not everyone who wants to protect Muslim apostates does so because they hate Muslims, you know.
Why not join us in protecting this girl's life, if indeed it is threatened?
anon-
for quite a while now you have been trolling this site, throwing bombs,
and cowering behind the Guest setting.
Your posts were mailny full of crap-
yet they where harmless- you where a bug-
BUT THIS IS A NEW LOW!!
How can you justify the murder of a young woman for her faith?
or because she wants a boyfriend?
or any reason.
YOU ARE SICK AND A COWARD!
I do hope we meet face to face one day!
I will break your jaw, its MY culture.
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by CO2HOG: via @BigJournalism Running the Out Clock on Rifqa Bary While the Dhimmi Media Sleeps http://bit.ly/c45Jd0 #tcot…
even if he was,
this was hardly the time or place.
Not to mention this fits right into his trolling history.
If it was a joke, falling flat doent even come close…
Isn't she a "Christian" girl now? Isn't her conversion to Christianity the reason for the death threats by her family?
I have been trying to follow this sad case for some time and have found it hard to get more detailed information than what is revealed here.
The hyperbole of the author in writing "CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood have infiltrated senior levels at the State Department so deeply" without providing links or supporting information does not illuminate our understanding of the legal proceeding at all. It's just provocative.
Cant she slip into Canada?
Des,
"(other than the over-reaction with the swat team taking him at gunpoint)."
Wow, seems like a pretty severe over-reaction you're citing!
If I understand you, you believe that Cuba is such a free country that Elian's father would never be threatened
by the government? You give absolutely no credence to the family's assertions that Elian's father had not only agreed , but was anxious for, Elian to have a chance for a better life here in America? Given the Castro's abysmal record on human rights, you're certain they would never,never force anyone to do anything against their will?
"If you're one of those conspiracy nuts that thinks the ATF intentionally burned down the compound and murdered the children, then I know exactly how seriously to take any other comments you make."
No, I don't think the ATF intentionally burned down the compound, thereby murdering all the children. I do think the end result was the same – they all died! Right? I certainly believe there had to be a better way to handle the situation that would have resulted in the kids rescued and alive. I'm not an expert on the correct methods, but we do have lots of people who are. Patience and calling in others for their expertise might have resulted in a completely different outcome.
Since you're throwing around insults and defending the indefensible, I assume that you are one of those wackos who think those kids are better off dead than living another hour in that Waco compound, right? I'll know better than to take anything you say seriously because, obviously, you are for the government saving kids by killing them!
Tell you what, don't infer a bunch of craziness into my comments and I won't twist your comments into nut job stuff either.
Wow. How do you know what the allegiances are of any one here? How is your little diatribe not just more hate? WTF?
jld, Exactly right! Good point that Des continues to her as a "Muslim girl" when Rifqa calls herself a Christian! What, she doesn't have the right to convert to Christianity either, Des?
Des,
I noticed you didn't answer my question:
"What do you think the chances are a teen, angry with restrictive parents, would chose to go to another restrictive environment? In other words, Rifqa goes to hang out at a pastor's house? Runaway teens usually go where they can "be free" – like the streets of LA or New York – that is if they don't have any wild friends they can hide out with. "
I'd bet the odds are slim to none!
The fedgov is not supposed to deport people to countries where they stand a high risk of being killed for any reason. However, I'm inclined to doubt Holder will regard that as a factor.
Worse yet, he might.
Are you willing to place your life on the line, betting against her being killed?
I wish you had to be this girl for a day. Then we'd see how smug and unfeeling you were about her fate.
And when making the "stupid" remarks, remember that most psychologists say that people who are namecalling are really placing their own personality traits onto others. I can give you references…
And yet you are willing to decide that we are wrong. (I reject your use of "we".)
Apparently you like to just castigate everyone to the right of you. You also apparently like to ignore everything else, even if you can't refute it.
Yes, that's what the legal system is for. But the islamists shouldn't be allowed to manipulate our system.
You are a FOOL, Des_, and by fool, I mean "someone who refuses to see". You think that Islam has NO bearing on her safety? Go and look up the Saudi punishment for thieves. Then again, go look up the term "honor killing". While I understand that this is all too much bother to you, and you don't care one typed word about her safety, be a little more honest about it all, wouldn't you? Your fake sympathy and NIMBY-ism are just more examples of why liberalism is as it always has been fundamentally unconcerned with the well-being of anyone besides the person advocating it.
How are you protecting this girl's life? Seriously, other than commenting about it on a message board, what are you personally doing?
I prefer to leave it up to the family and the authorities involved instead of trying to make myself (or my personal beliefs) part of the story.
If he is doing so, which he isn't, he's just as much got a right as you do. He states, in short, "The law has overlooked compelling evidence — that is, the nature of Islam." You say: "Nothing to see here! There is no threat! La la la la la!"
Look, this is a dumb comment and we both know it. There is no way I can put my life on the line over this. To ask me to commit to it is silly. Neither you nor I (nor Ms. Geller) are involved in this case, so other than checking out the facts and bringing attention to the situation if we feel there is anything untoward happening, our opinions (or or lives) have nothing to do with the situation.
Try stepping away from the hyperbole and really examine the facts.
He can't answer the question, because you've sat his butt right on the horns of a dilemna. If he admits that Christianity is as restrictive as Islam, then the girl running to Christianity makes no sense; if he admits that she sees Christianity as liberating, then he has to deal with the ramifications of what that says about Islam. In short, I think you can add Des_'s head to your wall.
I might know as much (or more) than you. Then again, it's irrelevant. I'm not making a decision on this case (and thankfully none of the people here are either). The police and courts are involved. The girl has a lawyer (which is a heck of a lot more than most 17 year-old girls in trouble have). Maybe instead of trying to blow this up into something it's not, you should stick to the facts of the case. You have no idea to what level the family ascribes to Islam or Shariah law (obviously it's not strict since she had permission to be a cheerleader).
On the other hand, it reveals your inability to do a Google search on the subject.
Heheh. I love it when people expose trolls as being massively ignorant.
And you are a nut-job. What does her family situation have to do with Saudi punishment for thieves?
Geez you people are unhinged. Quit trying to make this case about Islamic extremists around the world. This family has their own beliefs. Perhaps they are extreme, perhaps they're not. The point is, you don't know but you're assuming you are right anyway. It's a pointless exercise to guess at their actual religious beliefs, then extrapolate if you think they might murder their child over them.
Then you put the cherry on top by calling me a Liberal and saying I don't care about her safety. Seriously, could you be any more of a dufus?
I'm just curious, what have you done this week to ensure her safety?
My little diatribe is based on the history of anon's comments-
Even if it was a joke poor taste doenst beging to cover it.
I did not speak for everyone, just for myself and the many others that are sickend by someone making light of "honor killings"
WTF?
TF is that you are an tool- and an outright idiot if you dont see something wrong with the idea of murder being okay.
Ignorance and hate speech has it natural punishments,
and one of those is often a swift kick in the a$$.
Remember that-
How do you define me as a troll, and how has anyone shown me to be ignorant? People are making assumptions based on virtually no information, then saying if you agree with them you're a troll.
It's like I fell asleep and woke up on the Daily Kos.
Des wrote:
===
That would be horrible. However, we don't rip apart families based on our premonitions of what might happen.
===
So Des, as long as dad manages to molest his daughter or step-daughter without leaving physical proof, you want that child to be forcibly returned to dad, in handcuffs if need be. Because if a child is unable to prove abuse, she has no legal way to escape it. Except suicide. Wait, probably illegal as well for a child.
What you want is a child-molester's paradise, at least as long as those molesters are parents or guardians.
Des wrote:
===
You always listen to a child who says that they have been abused, molested, or are in imminent danger. But if the police investigate and find nothing to support the allegation, [...]
===
So what the child *says* actually carries no weight of its own at all — only what the child can *prove* means something. In other words a child's word really means absolutely nothing, and the child is really more like a domestic animal or a slave than a human being. A parent can molest a child or promise her she will kill her soon in a murder-suicide plan, and the child has no legal way to escape her doom of further molestation or outright murder.
Well… as I said, a paradise for child molesters and other child abusers.
And here we have your argument in a nutshell. This family is "Islamists" whose only goal is to manipulate our system. Of course if they were a loving family who were trying to get their daughter back, I'm curious as to how you'd tell the difference from the cheap seats.
I'm pretty sure I never said, "La la la la la," but I could be wrong. {sigh}
I never said there was nothing to see here. I said there are a lot of people who know very little about the specifics of the case who are trying to tie it into the bigger problem of Islamic fanaticism. If you can show me anything other than her claim that one time he father threatened her (which is still not verified by anyone), then there will be something else to see. At the moment, the only thing to see is a lot of people using this family and this girl as a prop for their particular ideological soapbox.
You want to take an underage girl and keep her away from her family by hiding her in your spare bedroom?
Yeah, there's NO possibility for a problem there.
I would be fine with your solution. Address it through the courts and find an answer. Just stop with trying to make this family into a metaphor for Islamic extremism (at least until they actually do something extreme).
My example wasn't a hypothetical. It has happened numerous times. The question is, if it happened to you (which is hypothetical), would you be OK with it?
Well, concerning Waco I'm wondering just how long we're supposed to let a criminal (an extremely well-armed one) continue to molest children with impunity while the government waits outside asking him nicely to stop?
As for Elian, he most definitely belongs with his father. Your opinion of what would be better for him is completely irrelevant, since you aren't his family. You can make all the rantings you want about Cuba, but we don't kidnap children from their families because we think they can be raised better by our government (or distant relatives our government decides to hand the kidnapped children to).
You're a moron. Nobody has added my head to anything, nor provided me with an argument I couldn't answer. I'm playing with my child. Is that OK with you, dipsh!t?
I'm curious about something. Why do you continue to take posts and instead of replying to them, move to a new area to bring them up again? Is it an attention thing? This is like the fourth time you've done it. You know it's OK to ask me a question where we were discussing things instead of moving the conversation to a different place every time.
Anyway, I have no idea if the pastor in Florida had a restrictive home or not. I don't know what his house rules were, or how he would go about punishing her if she disobeyed. Since she's not his kid, he can't legally touch her without committing a felony. That kind of gives her most of the power, doesn't it?
Frakking troll.
You think Google is your answer to cutting through the BS and finding facts? Good luck with that.
Could you please (for once in this thread) actually present us with some facts of your own, instead of insisting your opinion is the only legitimate one?
Look at the cute troll! This post is so stupid, I'm debating whether it is satire or not.
Yeah, it's their culture, but it is also our legal system genius.
I think we have to keep in mind that this is one girl. She has received an enormous amount of attention and donation of services. There are millions of at risk 17 year olds out there who aren't getting any attention for their problems tonight. I'm OK with making sure the right thing gets done here (as much as we can), but all this over-hype screams that people are more interested in what the case says about their personal beliefs than about the girl herself.
I'm curious as to how many people who are just devastated that this girl might have to go home (and possibly into harms way) will be going to a homeless shelter later tonight to donate clothes or a meal, or lose sleep over any other girl who doesn't happen to get in the headlines.
Actually, I'm not curious. I know the answer is either none, or next to none…sadly.
Two examples: Google for 'Rashad Hussain'. Or 'Chas W. Freeman, Jr'.
Do Christians have a history of honor killings in such cases? I think not.
Christians in America have a long history of everything. If you go back 40 years or so, the laws regarding child abuse (physical) were completely different than they are today. Anything I wanted to prove about abuse in the home (child or spousal) could be substantiated with the mountains of data about how people used to behave. Was that behavior because of their faith? Probably not. However, Liberals have used that behavior to push through Leftist laws for decades and substantially damage the Republican party with the younger generation.
That says nothing, however, about how an individual Christian might be behaving with his family. I don't believe in messing with people's families unless you have proof (or a preponderance of circumstantial evidence) to back it up.
"at least until they do something extreme" Like what….actually kill her?
We must replace any government officials that are accommodating Sharia
And your suggestion for getting rid of Odumbo before he makes Sharia law part of our country? He is a Muslim you know and hates Jews.
Yeah if you are wrong he kills her. Either here or takes her back to the craphole in the middle east and does it. I think I would rather take her word for it.
So you are saying, in essence, that Christians do have a history of honor killings in such cases?
http://www.smi.uib.no/pao/longva.html
"What struck me most was the unanimity of the condemnations. Everywhere in the Middle East these days opinions differ widely on the relationship between religion, public life and politics – with 'liberals' and 'islamists' being the two contending categories at each extreme of the continuum. Kuwait is no exception. On this particular occasion, however, I found a surprisingly strong consensus across the liberal/islamist divide. Practically everyone agreed that Qambar's conversion was a serious crime and as is the case with all crimes, it had to be punished. "
Remember, Rifqa's family is also under new immigrant status. This excerpt above suggests that no matter what brand the Muslim is liberal/Islamist, the consensus on apostasy, Rifqa's crime, is nearly universal.
Pt. 1
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/family_law/islam...
"In order to contract a valid marriage for himself or herself, a Muslim man or woman must be sane and must have reached puberty.[28] Modern laws in Islamic countries generally require that a girl have reached at least thirteen years of age, and that a boy be at least fifteen, in order to marry."
If thirteen is the general age of marriage in Islam for woman, it is likely that Rifqa could be viewed as an asult for the purposes of Shari'a apostasy law.
Des,
WACO?! You are actually stating that after ALL the time the Feds had already waited to move in on the Waco compound, it was such a desperate, dangerous situation that there was no time to consult other experts? No time to get more ideas? No time to come up with a better plan than the one that killed all those kids? You are actually advocating the Feds' unintentional killing of those kids was a better outcome than what? You think it was better for those kids to be killed than to be molested for what – one more day, one more hour, one more minute? REALLY??? Were all the kids who were killed being molested? You don't know and neither do I, but I seriously doubt they were. Were all those kids being molested while the stand-off was going on? REALLY??? Honestly, you can not believe what you are stating! Wasn't the idea to rescue them, not kill them? ARE THE KIDS BETTER OFF? THEY'RE DEAD!
You think if the Feds had a do over they'd do it the same way? Of course you don't. They should have waited. Those agents have to suffer with a lot of guilt over a rushed, botched plan that went horribly wrong.
Elian did have family here stating that the father was being forced to make those statements. Never having lived in Cuba I don't know what parents would do to get their children out of their, but I sure many would give their lives.
By the way, Elian didn't wind up with his dad, did he? He wound up live the life of a propaganda tool for Castro.
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_...
Here is an entire track explaining honor killing in the Islamic cultures. It does say that as of the writing of this article that honor killings are rare in Bangladesh, but then again, honor killings are something that have crept into the US. It is not unreasonable to assume that the brand of Islam that is being spread most aggressively, Wahhabist Islam, an Saudi import to many countries, is the sort that Rifqa's family has been getting at their local mosque.
Pt. 5
http://www.examiner.com/x-21239-Oakland-Skepticis... lastly, it appears that my suspicion that Rifqa's famiy attends a mosque teaching Wahhabi Islam is likely correct. This is a description of the scholar-in-residence: "Chief among these is the Noor Islamic Cultural Center's past "de facto 'scholar-in-residence'", Dr. Salah Sultan who is…internationally-renowned for his positions with Islamic organizations, such as the Fiqh Council of North America, the Muslim American Society, European Council for Fatwa and Research and the Islamic Association for Muslim Scholars – the last two organizations headed up by his mentor, Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, who is recognized as one of the top Muslim Brotherhood thinkers and the spiritual leader for the terrorist group Hamas. When Sultan founded the Islamic American University in the Detroit area, he named Qaradawi as the honorary chairman of the board and appointed him head of the school’s campus in Qatar, despite the fact that Qaradawi has been banned from the U.S. since 1999 for his Islamic rulings authorizing the use suicide bombing terrorist attacks."____Pt. 6
"[...] While still a Central Ohio resident he participated in the issuance of Islamic fatwas (legal rulings) authorizing attacks against U.S. military troops in Iraq through organizations he holds leadership positions in, and he has personally taken positions on Islamic issues in defense of extreme Islamic punishments, including stoning and amputations, in accordance with Islamic law. "
The list of scary people that have taught their brand of Islam at Rifqa's mosque goes on if you explore the link in pt. 6.
Given what I've uncovered with about 15-20 minutes of internet searching, it is not unreasonable to assume that Rifqa may very well be telling the truth when it comes to her family's threats.
So now we all know that anon is perfectly OK with murder. I'm sure it's wrong for him/her, but when moral equivalence leads you to allow that it's OK some of the time, then you might as well be saying it's OK all of the time.
I'm sorry but murder is murder no matter what culture accepts and allows for it.
Ummm, yeah. We should rescue every Muslim, or in this case Christian girl in America, who has been threatened with death. It isn't as if she has been threatened with grounding, or having her cell phone taken away. She knows that her life is in danger. Do some research. There have been several cases here in the U.S. of fathers killing their daughters for the "honor" of the family. She didn't pull this threat out of thin air. But, what's the life of a young girl to you? Obviously nothing. Sounds like you have your own problems with your own kids, that make you more than a little biased against Rifqa.
I take it you were against the seizure of the fundy morman children from their mothers? Note I said mothers not fathers.
"You stupid conservatives are always freaking out about Muslims killing these people or those people. It's their culture! Who are we to decide what's right or wrong?"
Mind if I marry your sister and then kill the bitch for wearing revealing, western clothing?
You want to take a slave and keep her away from her owner? (Go ahead and call this a strawman argument. We already know that you could not care less about this girl.) The fact is, in Muslim "culture" women ARE considered property, with whom fathers, and sons, can do anything they like. Including killing them to protect their twisted idea of "honor".
So, yeah. An "underground railroad" would be apropos in this situation.
Not really. Because, Hey, "it's their culture". Who are we to say that it's wrong?
I'll answer anyway. At least one. Me. I was once a teen in a bad situation, who is now in a good one. I never forget that, and I don't take what I have now for granted. What I can do, I do. And what I can give, I give.
How about you? What do you do? Besides denigrate people concerned about "one" girl? Caring about one is better than caring about none.
Fact: This girl is a child in an Islamic family.
Fact: This girl converted to Christianity
Fact: The barbaric practice of the Islam faith dictates that those that leave shall be killed.
Fact: We have seen this actually play out in this country as well as others.
Fact: The ONLY way to insure this young womans safety is to be sure she's not allowed to be put back into this family of barbarians is to legally keep her from being forced back into it.
Anymore facts we need?
even if he was,
this was hardly the time or place.
Some people won't get it until the knife is lopping there head off. It is up to people like us to even save the stupid as well as ourselves Sigh..
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