Having made a handsome living offending Scientologists, Catholics, Evangelicals and just about every ethnic group in the human family, Matt Stone and Trey Parker are writers who make people squirm, laugh and think. Now they’ve gone and outraged yet another religion.
Nearly every interest group, public official and celebrity caught up in the day’s news has been used in South Park’s story line to make viewers laugh. The show is smart and thought-provoking, the jokes are crude and vulgar, and no one is immune from criticism.
I like South Park because it makes me laugh when I want to just laugh. It also makes me think when I want to just laugh. But truth be told, I, too, have been offended while watching (and laughing) at the show’s depiction of Christians, conservatives or gays in any given episode.

When South Park took on Christianity and mocked Jesus Christ, I found myself a bit uncomfortable and somewhat offended, yet I was still humored. I’ve even been so outraged by a stereotypical character or plotline that I’ve been moved to openly discuss it, analyze it with friends and bring it up in a later discussion. That is what makes it unique. Stone’s and Parker’s appeal is their ability to offend everyone. You know what you are getting when you watch South Park, so if you are upset by vulgar humor, it’s best not to watch it.
Last week, however, one offended group is getting publicity for threatening violence on the show’s staff after being poked fun of in an episode. A U.S.-based group called “Revolution Muslim” has threatened violence on the creators for their depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, and it is clear from the group’s statements that they have never seen the show before. The group blames the injustices around the world on America’s pop culture and foreign policy and uses the latest South Park episode to make a stand:
We seek to create an opportunity for correction of wrongs and the alteration of behavior that many may suggest is insignificant, but nevertheless is a behavior which we hold to be not only sacrilegious, but which we feel typifies a cancer which bites at the root of global injustice. The cancer we are referring to is that of American imperialism and its coincident culture of pagan hedonistic barbarism, a culture which drives to dehumanize the intrinsic morality of the rest of the world. As it stands today the vast majority of the world has witnessed the cloud of American debauchery, and those whom it has not hovered over have at the very least been affected by its dust.

The group goes on to say:
By placing the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in a bear suit, the creators of South Park sought to insult the sacred, and show their blatant and general disregard for religion. By insulting our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) without the outright depicting of his image, the creators of South Park thought that they had found some loophole in the Muslim faith for them to mock. If you were to ask any American how many people had been killed in the Iraq war, then he would give you some number around 4,000. The reality is that many estimates put the complete death toll of this war at figures above 1,000,000. America is a country which murdered 500,000 Iraqi children in the decade before September 11, 2001 under the Iraq sanctions…
How can anyone possibly champion the values of such a people? In the last century only the Soviet regime and the Maoist regime murdered more innocent people than America. Not even the tyrant of the twentieth century, Adolf Hitler, beats out America on this list. However, for some reason the makers of South Park in their self-righteous obscenity feel compelled to impose upon Muslims the values of this regime.
It is clear that the Revolution Muslim group isn’t really focused on South Park as much as it is focused on America, Hollywood and American foreign policy. The group hates the American way of life, capitalism and freedom. The group is attacking people’s right to choose their religion, their soul mate, their movies, their music and their political candidates. It is an assault on freedoms and therefore, everyone who loves this country must speak out against the group’s threats of violence.
Muslim groups should be leading the way in condemning this group. Some of the funniest people I know are Muslims – and now is the time for them to stand up and push this radical group to the fringes of their religion. Muslims don’t have to defend the depiction of Muhammad any more than Catholics have to defend the gross portrayals of the Virgin Mary. But we all have to defend the right to make a joke.

If religious Muslims are so offended by South Park’s depiction of Muhammad, then they have the right to boycott the media companies that create and distribute the show, just as Evangelical Christians have done when they were overly offended. But violence and brutality is no laughing matter, and everybody — including responsible American Muslims — should speak out against Revolution Muslim’s threats.






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Those crickets you hear are those found within the Muslim community hear in America and abroad. Those Muslims who are, are so few that the chirping overshadows the cry. I would't hold my breath either.
"When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives?"
Easy. Religion.
Especially when the 'religion' in question is a fascist death-cult.
I agree with Leauxryda. It shouldn't take articles like this to get Muslims to renounce this kind of behavior. However, it's clear that other Muslims don't denounce them either because they agree with these thugs or they too are afraid to denounce them for fear of retaliation. Given the fact that so many of past Muslim attacks in the Middle East are at other Muslims this fear may be well founded.
What's funny about this is that Americans are fighting and dying in Afganistan to stop Muslim on Muslim atrocities and when they are threatened hear all we to do shrink in fear.
Has the Left ever met an enemy that they didn't try to befriend and appease?
As Mark Steyn says, "Please sir, behead me last!"
[...] When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? Big Journalism (blog) – Apr 25th – 13:57 [...]
I don't think anyone should sit by and let this "work its way out". People are dying and civil rights are being violated. If you don't care about these things then I say you lack a moral compass. As for their sharia law, it does not apply here. If they want to live in a retrograde society then move and more power to them but in America the Constitution is the final law of the land. Personally I don't care by what name anyone calls God as long as they behave in polite society. "Believe in stones if you wish, just don't throw them at me".
It's been "working it's way out" for 1400 years. Your argument doesn't hold water. No one is that stupid or incompetent. Islam is a cult of violence and conquest since day one. Nothing about that will ever change.
In a perfect world we would leave all religions alone. However, the difference between how critics (or comics) treat Catholicism versus Islam is glaring.
On a slightly different note–but one that involves cartoons–there is a humorous cartoon on Nancy Pelosi and the rush to ram through Obama's agenda at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/electi...
We know what gave here. And it didn't start or stop with censorship spawned by threats that are, in all probability, crimes that will likely go unpunished and could spur someone on the edge to take the law into their own hands.
While I stand foursquare with Parker and Stone, let's face it: they buckled by putting the bear suit on the demon Mohammed. The language and plot were watered down by South Park standards. Yet even that was not enough for a fucked up Goth-turned-Mohammedan who probably is special friends, in the way that is both pandemic and condemned in the Islamic World, with the other 10 members of RevolutionMuslim.com.
Now we have silence from the media that should report actual violence and intimidation, silence from an entertainment world that has proven just as craven as the MSM, and silence from state and federal proseucutors who should make this little bitch's dreams come true in prison. Who wants to bet "Draw Mohammed Day" will receive more coverage–all negative–more negative Hollywood criticisim–and more serious consideration for prosecution than the actual crime that may have been committed here?
The non-extremest Muslims will say nothing against the extremest. They fear repercussions and will never speak out against them, so good luck on that one. It is up to the American people to stand up to these bullies. I am sick to death of folks not loving this country, if they hate it so much, then leave!
I too have felt offended by attacks that come against the Christian Church and the Jews, but the day anyone silences another to be PC we are doomed! I choose not to watch South Park for their humorous banter against all groups and religions, that is my choice! But I appreciate that the writers of South Park deem no one entity above another…. One thing is for sure, I will never try to stop them from their right to the freedom of speech just because I am offended, for I never want to live in a society where I have to watch what I say for fear of repercussions.
The more I learn of the religion of Islam the more I continue pointing out to those I know that the violence, abuse and death at their hands, wherever they exist has and always will be blamed on whoever they are trying to convert or control in the name of Allah.
Right now the progressive left see them as a useful tool to obtain more power, the fact is however the left and their fundamental beliefs and behaviors i.e. : promiscuity, abortions, gay and lesbian lifestyles, are exactly why ISLAM will be their worse enemy. Biggest problem we have however is that by virtue of just being Americans we are in fact guilty by association.
A key phrase in this post about "Revolution Muslim" is that it is a "U.S. based group." Since this "U.S. based group" is threatening violence — rather graphically, in fact, with photos of Dutch film maker Van Gogh's bloodied and mutilated body to make their point — it would seem to fall within the province of the Department of Justice and Homeland Security, among others, to reassign one or two agents from their very busy search for something more sinister than chants of "Read the Bill" or "Follow the Constitution" from TEA Party members, to take a good hard look at solid threats of death and decapitation directed at specific U.S. citizens who merely exercised their GOD-given right to express an opinion (whether holding that opinion is offensive, or even repugnant, is a private matter between those citizens and GOD. If there's something to be "dealt with," HE can and will handle it, in His Own way and in His Own time).
We are, all of us, "offended" from time to time, whether by thoughtless remarks about our personal/religious beliefs, or by deliberate mockery of those beliefs. But who among us can think of anything more offensive and repugnant, than the implied claim that it is possible to "serve God" (by any name) by doing evil? Can't happen! To do evil, is to serve evil, and to attribute that evil to God, by any name, is the worst sort of blasphemy.
Like the proverbial frog in th pot of hot water, we are daily surrendering to Dhimmitude. It started long ago, when Jimmy Carter was president, when our hostages were taken and we did nothing about it except show the radical Islamic world that we would tattle to the UN and wring out hands in angst over it. They have been emboldened ever since. First Reagan and then George Bush gave them pause, but following each, a Democratic administration undid any gains we made in getting their attention and respect for our willingness to fight back, and in fact both dem admins have taken us back down the road to appeasement. I don't know a single American who believes Obama will use force against radical Islam. Why should the Islamists fear him?
They are poking us with sticks to see what we'll do. So far, since Bush left office, we have demonstrated that we are willing to do nothing except acquiesce.
I am wondering if this cannot be used as a civil rights violation. This group made threats that caused comedy central to act in a certain way… seems to me that civil liabilities might be the way to go on this. Hit 'em in the pocketbook
It is a cartoon !
There was nothing "in" a bear suit !
Are these muslums really waiting for some old timer to pop out of a well and kill all the Jews and Christians?
Do they really believe in their happy humping grounds, with 72 infected perverts and lots of weed?
What kind of "religion" treats their cattle better than their women?
What kind of "religion" has such as weak god that they need to help him kill the infidels?
Christians may get angry over a "Piss Jesus" thing, but as a rule, they let God take care of things. The Christian God is more powerful than the muslum's moon god, who needs help from the garbage in the streets to get anything done.
It seems to me that the Muslims (I know I should say most) are fixated on making other peoples business their business.
If I say Mohamed is a goat sucker and go to hell for it, what business is that of some other person? You can't control the thoughts and opinions of the people at large and what good would it do you if you could? If I offend you then you aren't minding your own business, you are busy trying to make me believe what you believe and be governed by the standards you choose to govern yourselves. A lesson could be learned from the Amish. They have long been ridiculed and made fun of etc., yet we don't see any of those people rising up to whack others over the head with a wagon spoke! They live peacefully, minding their own business and let others dictate for their own lives whatever they wish.
God bless them for that.
By the way… I don't watch TV at all. It offends me.
My father has visited the Ahmish communities. He has spoken of the meak and faithful people who are generous in both heart and spirit. Their lives are pure and simple and should never be ridiculed for their morals and values. Their community is one to be admired.
You are right. Another misconception about the Amish is that they are exclusive. My father owned some land and a cabin (more like a house really) that was right in the middle of an Amish community. It was kind of a getaway place for us… not a home but we, nonetheless, was there on weekends and vacations… etc.
These people totally abolished my preconceptions about Amish people.
My father and I stopped by one day to inquire about some farm that was for sale, adjacent to the farm of this family.
The man was working in his cabinet shop and stopped everything and invited us into his home to talk. His wife and two daughters brought us pie and tea… they were very graceful. They didn't try to push anything on us or take anything off of us. Our presence seemed to be an event for them. When we left, my dad had the information we wanted and we also had a loaf of fresh baked bread! LOL
South park is crap. The emperor has no clothes. I realized a long time ago that anyone who thought that stupid show was funny had nothing in common with me. Nothing is worse that a show that is embarrassingly unfunny (I blush a little on behalf of anyone who has anything to do with its production) AND as offensive as possible (whatever goodwill I may otherwise have had for them is already gone).
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
In India we have 2 laws; one for Indians and the other for Indians who are Muslims. That group has to be appeased to no end because they are so…..o sensitive (fanatic?). Only time will tell if the US too will have to succumb and grant them the Sharia law. Could I be the 2nd Nostradamas?
Politically right
You are spot on!
Might sound crazy , but I think if they are all granted US citizenship, they might come to appreciate the beauty and freedoms that we have here in the USA
At this very moment, a memorial service is being held for the lost miners. What stands out the most is the freedom of these families practicing their personal religion in praising God for all their wonders and goodness.
It is humbling to hear pain but realizing the message of joy and love is so prevalent in each speakers' words. What is it about this moment others despise? I cannot grasp the concept that Christians are so vile that they must die or that liberals find fault in the hearts of many who serve a God of love and forgiveness. It frightens me that our government can stand shoulder to shoulder with that warped mentality.
My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the these Americans. I also ask that all keep in your thoughts and prayers the families of those Americans who perished on the TransOcean Horizon. Their's and those before us memories should be testiment to the power that is America and it should be protected at all costs.
Bear witness Mr. President as you sit before these families today. This is the real American and we and our children are the future of this country to which we will protect for future generations.
The authorities don't consider a "crime" has occurred. They probably want to wait until someone dies..How stupid id that?
You're right, it's crazy………
In the spirit of the deal leader Chairman Mao, Islam is poison.
While not Amish, you took me back to my days as a child. Families had much in common then. Thanks for the nice memory.
Thank you! I was only stating the obvious.
Yep that is crazy! They are to beholden to their "death to America and death to Israel"….
This country cannot allow Sharia Law…………….by all means necessary.
I don't watch Southpark. I suggest Muslims don't watch it either. It's called choice. Muslims need to be told they're not freakin' special – period. CACAH Day is one way for us to send them a message. I hope the FBI or Homeland Security are onto these guys like flies on a turd of dung. What's going on in Virginia – didn't they arrest others for plotting and planning against us from that state more than once? Anyone tracking their mosques and imams? Janet where are you?
And yet no Muslims march against threats of violence made ithe name of their religion. That's because they know perfectly well that the Koran really does tell Muslims that it is their duty to terrorize and kill non-Muslims until the state is an Islamic state implementing Shariah law, in which non-Muslims are either dead, or oppressed second class citizens. We are in a religious war and we must stand up as a people to win it.
Some additional information on Revolution Muslim and their supporters you guys may be interested in:
http://ronmossad.blogspot.com/2010/04/revolution-...
The Revolution Muslim guys were all once normal Americans before they converted to Islam. It's really very disturbing…
Holderman Catholics don't believe in graven images either. They don't allow pictures of any type in their communities. But they aren't making death threats every time someone portrays a Christian religious figure in a picture, offensive or otherwise.
I understand that this offends Muslims, but so what? No one forces them to watch, and it's not like Parker and Stone are Muslims perpetrating what they believe to be a sin.
As people are fond of saying, who are they to be special enough to ram their religion down our throats by threat of violence?
I think the bear suit was a poke at the story of the poor teacher who let her students name the class bear Mohammad and was nearly executed myself.
Yes. The Right.
There is one other thing people should bear in mind:
Neither this South Park episode, nor any others featuring Mohammad, ever portrayed him in a negative manner.
Joseph Smith of the Latter Day Saints was called a liar with a bunch of gullible fools for followers.
Pope John Paul II was portrayed as a barely conscious lump of flesh, while Pope Benedict XVI was portrayed as a sap easily overthrown by Bill Donohue.
Jesus is just another character, while Satan is a big, red Mr. Slave.
Jews are depicted as treating Moses as an active source of leadership, when he is not off being some kind of super-computer.
Even L. Ron Hubbard was exposed as a whackjob, and Scientology as a crazed cult, functionally on the level of David Blaine.
Mohammed?
He has fire powers, flies, and hangs out with the Super Best Friends. And once he was going to pass Family Guy a salmon helmet.
No discussion of pedophilia, murder, terrorism, oppression, or anything else he did.
Mohammed has received incredibly benign treatment on South Park compared to other people.
Consider that for some perspective.
Like or not like "South Park", that isn't the issue.
The issue is that a group of home grown wanna-be terrorists are STIFLING FREE SPEECH!
The should not be ABLE to do this, they cannot be allowed to win. WHERE IS ERIC "the Red" HOLDER?
Where is the Justice Department? Where is the rest of Hollywood? Where is CAIR? They want "tolerance", reich?
Yes, clearly they deserve to be killed by Muslim extremists, since the overarching principle in your mind seems to be whether you like them or not.
You know that whooshing sound you've been hearing? That's the point, going right over you head.
I sound like a facist because I think the show sucks? Really?
I didn't say anything about deserving death by Muslim extremist. I do think it deserves cancellation by liberal extremist producers though. It sucks big time.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
I have and you make an excellent point. If you are going to appease a little, you will be expected to appease a lot. I forget the NYC-based comedian from the Sixties who said, "if you go up to the bell, ring it." South Park is at a crossroads. Either it can go balls to the wall and portray the non-Prophet as the twisted freak he was or be complete hypocrites. There is no other choice now. Comedy Central is about to lose about half its viewership if it takes the route I expect.
You sound like you'd like to CENSOR what you don't like. Screw you.
What you think is inconsequential, TURN the CHANNEL if it "offends" you.
Who said anything about censoring? I suggested cancelling. Because it is so lame that it makes me blush a little out of embarrassment for any of the writers who actually thought it was funny enough to put on TV.
You think because something stays on basic cable for a while it makes it good? I'll bet you think Britney Spears is a good singer too. She has been popular for a long time.
Its lack of funniness is what offends me. I obviously hit a sore spot for you. I am guessing you are a fan? Oh well.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/
Parker and Stone are clever enough for that to be the case, but my point stands. Look at their kid gloves treatment of Mohammed vs. other targets.
Who said anything about censoring? I suggested cancelling. Because it is so lame that it makes me blush a little out of embarrassment for any of the writers who actually thought it was funny enough to put on TV.
You think that because something has been on basic cable for a long time it makes it good? You are probably think Britney Spears is a good singer too. She has been popular for a long time.
It sounds like I hit a nerve here for you. You a fan? That's ok. I like some stupid shows too. But I don't call critics fascists. Come on dude. You should lighten up.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
Let some Tea Party goer say something negative about the little bastard who made the actual threats, and all of a sudden our federal law enforcement will find a "crime" might have happened.
Free speach notwithstanding, threats of murder and intimidation. With no accountability. This is what dhimmitude is and it's in our front yard smelling up our lawns.
Let me clue all of you in on a secret. Islam will beat secular humanism every time. It is a stronger world view. If the future of the Western world is to be decided by these two world views, get your kids prepared for Koran school. I love that all the secularists are like," Holy crap why do these Muslims get so mad when we blaspheme their religion?" The answer is that they actually believe that Allah is ruler and that their relationship to Him is more important then their relationship to hipster academics.
Not justifying murder of course. That is a problem with Islam – they try to advance their ideas by violence. My religion, Christianity, certainly does not condone it. But Christians who actually believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior who died for them when they were dead in their sins should not be like, "I am offended but the show (that routinely mocks Jesus) makes me laugh…hehehe." Come on. Seriously? The fact that we are not allowed to be offended at anything shows how far freakin Nietzsche's stupid self defeating system of thought has infected our society.
The show is lame and unfunny anyway. http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
Well said!
Nietzsche's system of thought was anything but self-defeating, and certainly has nothing to do with the mindless subservience to the uber-state that is Marxism and derivatives which is advocated by most secular humanists today.
Nietzsche heartily endorsed taking offense and actively disliking people where needed.
Agree Joe, and when you have billions of cash to toss around to buy people to 'your way of thinking' it's easy to spread the propoganda – there are far too many muslim extremists in every faction of our life and people are pitifully ill informed of it – Foot Hood is ONE example -
It's only one element of what they are striving for, to be granted more than they already are given considering the infultration that has occurred already! you know it Lorben, it is always death to America and Israel – they have no desire to 'be' here and become part of American culture, anyone who believe that nonsense is part of the problem!
What? Of course it was self defeating. Nietzsche believed that our brains were nothing but random matter evolved without the guidance of God. If this is true, thought becomes a physical response of chemicals and neurons to stimuli and ceases to be anything important. Nietzsche committed suicide because his views were suicidal. Humans need order and purpose. His ridiculous views offer neither.
I love the GK Chesterton quote, “If Nietzsche had not ended in imbecility, Nietzscheism would end in imbecility.”“If Nietzsche had not ended in imbecility, Nietzscheism would end in imbecility.”
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
You are right Capt, and considering hillary just granted a muslim extremist his visa back, they are wholly complacent and truly in bed with this sick movement. They aren't just masking it, they are profiting from it, it's the way they work and get things done in the under belly of the democratic world of filth.
If it's cancelled IT GOES AWAY. If it's censored it GOES AWAY. Please, think before you spew.
If it insults you DON'T watch it. Other can make their OWN CHOICES, they don't need that arbitrated by you.
You're as BAD as the current state of U. of Michigan football. Cancel that crap, it SUCKS TOO.
It is a traitorous behavior and they should be either prosecuted or deported back to their country of origin….just saying….
Tossing around some pretty wild stuff there (and yes, before you try and rope into a flame war, I have read nietzsche and not all of us are impressed) – whatever floats your boat – for me, I'll just stick with the simple belief that GOOD trumps EVIL everytime!
ouch. Now you got personal. The you can't cancel the Wolverine football program. Look at the history dude. It is the best program in the nation. Couple bad seasons? Fair critique. This is a blip. They will turn things around.
Cancelling is not the same thing as censoring. Cancelling is the result of sucking. Unless you think ABC's "Life on Mars" (which sucked almost as much as southpark) was censored.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
Ok, I agree. Nietzche was "beyond good and evil".
The one good thing I can say about the guy is that at least he was honest. With Atheism, there is no morality.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
And when the extremists get what they want, submission to Islam visa-vis our government, these "pawns" will be forced to choose allah or death. Then, as converts and not muslim through blood, they will die at the hands of the very people they extended their hands in friendship. All for the sake of nothing!
Just because you are incapable of choosing a moral lifestyle without divine threats or promises does not mean everyone else is. Nietzsche explicitly called on people to choose a moral way of life regardless of the threat of divine retribution, or the promise of divine reward. In fact you find that very presentation to be at the heart of Islam.
Nietzsche did not commit suicide. He died of strokes, which likely were caused by the same degenerative or hereditary condition that caused his dementia. Obviously you are as ignorant of the man as you are of his philosophy.
There is no doubt that Nietzsche despised religion, particularly Christianity, and by extension Judaism. (Though despite claims he in no way despised Jews, rather holding special venom for anti-Semites.) The context of this is critical. He considered the religion of his day to be what is recognized today as Libertation Theology. Few would deny the emasculating, victim focused, suicidal nature of that particular synergistic construct. Again though, if you actually knew anything about Nietzsche you would know that.
Something fishy about the fact that this muslim group talked to the NY Times and Comedy Central censors the original content. It looks like this whole *episode* is manufactured by MSM media and the elite brass at Corporate Comedy Central to provoke a nanny state, feel good campaign about censorship. All faux outrage.
Is "suck" a technical term?
My God is an Awesome God. He tells me to wait upon him. I do not have to defend his honor in any way. He says he will make my enemies my footstool. I do not have to put on a suicide belt or crash a plane into a building. My God has arms. The muslim god and his prophet are false and powerless. If a muslim has to do all the work for his god then his god isn't really a god. Woe to the enemies of my people, for when my God rises, he shall cast them into the fire.
Nietzsche believed Good is superior to Evil everytime as well. He just did not believe that the currently popular definitions of Good and Evil were suitable.
And he was absolutely right!
As I noted above, the primary choices included the elements that later synergized and metastisized into Liberation Theology, where the Cult of the Victim is paramount, and Good is defined as "those who do not have and thus suffer", while Evil is defined as "those who have and thus do not suffer". The other main contender were the elements that have come to the fore among Islamists, but which also drove various form of eugenics based politics, where the Cult of the Taker is paramount, and Good is defined as "that which the strong can do because no one can stop them", and Evil is defined as "that which the weak must endure because they cannot protect themselves". It was inevitable that Nihilism would be spawned between those two forces, with Good being defined as "partying until the world dies" and Evil defined as "being a conformist drone until the world dies".
lol! Sorry about the U.M. shot. U.of Texas E.P. alum (where football is a deversion until basketball season starts!) and HUGE U. of Texas Longhorn fan ( we've caught all the programs BUT U.M. in total all-time wins. U.M. IS college football. I hope to see a game at the Big House one day).
I get the semantical difference, the fact is "South Park" is very successful.
While I have a very different view of South Park than you do, I will agree that Islam is a greater motivating presence than the generic "love of man" that's endorsed by most strongly secular countries. Statists that expect Islam to remain a tertiary force in an age of budding Humanism are committing a terrible folly.
Are you "A. Stoner"? I read some your posts, darn good. Minor disagreement I generally excersize my right to ignore "South Park" but I will be DAMNED if Islam will dictate U.S. TV programing.
Hi BronxZionist, You are right about the suicide – my bad (I was thinking of his madness). But I am not responding again for that correction. I would like to address the issue in your first paragraph. You say that I am incapable of choosing morality without threats and promises. This is not my point at all. Let me explain my point again.
It is not about who can act more moral. It is about the existence of something called morality in the first place. It is not about which view is more logical. It is about the existence of logic at all. Think about this: if we are just the product of millions of years of unguided evolution. If our brains are no more than matter that happened to collect and organize in a certain configuration, than our thoughts are not really thoughts at all. They are electrons and chemicals bubbling. The neuron fires one way? That is logic. The other way? That is illogic. Which one is better? Why is a firing neuron in a mass of cells on a distant planet in one of millions of stars in one of billions of galaxies of any importance at all?
Mountain dew spilled on the ground bubbles and swirls. It is neither moral or immoral. It is neither logical or illogical. It is a mass of unguided stuff swirling without importance. Just like our brains.
Make sense?
By the way, I have a Master's in theology that included a lot of philosophy so I do know a little about this stuff.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
"Cancelling" is the result of no one watching the show. If no one watched and enjoyed South Park, then it would be gone already. Since it continues to be picked up season after season, there must be a decent audience watching it. I know I do on occasion because I do find it tastelessly funny even as I've been offended by it on more than one occasion.
Your tastes obviously differ from mine. As do your football allegiances …
I understand what you're saying; however, I do think that South Park has taken plenty of shots at Msulims themselves.
Human beings have an innate need to believe, IMO, and the strength of belief in the merely human or mundane is inferior in every way to belief in something sacred and divine.
That is in no way a commentary on the "right" or "wrong" of various types or systems of belief. Only an observation that IME those who believe in a higher power of some sort will tend to fight harder.
Actually, even on that level, it has not taken shots at them for being Muslims, but for being other things, such as terrorists or the thugs of dictators.
This is in contrast to other groups that have been mocked, I will not say "attacked" as that is not really an appropriate description, simply on account of their faith.
Does that mean I think Stone and Parker are selective wusses?
Not at all. Merely that when considered, Mohammad has received a hell of a nice portrayal compared to Joseph Smith, and Muslims as Muslims have also gotten off more than a bit lightly.
(Side Note: I am not an LDS member. I just note Joseph Smith as having been given rather harsh treatment in comparison to say Jesus, who while not being particularly defamed has been portrayed very flippantly to a point that could easily be objectionable.)
The OP misses one major point. It is literaly against their religion to portray Moh… thus to defend people showing his picture is a "sin". Add in that breaking Sharia law has REAL world consequences for them, and you begin to see their problem.
Most in the West really don't understand that the Jihadists are FUNDAMENTALISTs… they are taking a direct literal interpretation of their Holy Book, and following it. Its the Moderates who are trying to "change" the religion… and just like the Catholic/Protestant religious conlicts in Europe, where they were killing Heretics on both sides… this will have to "work" its way out.
You are asking a Spanish Peseant to condemn the Inquisition during the height of its power..
As I have said before
What is the same about a UFO and a moderate muslim?
You always hear about them but you never see one.
It is not whether or not it makes sense, but whether it stands as either an indictment or refutation of what Nietzsche was saying. Which, again, goes right back into what Nietzsche was saying in the first place. And it relates directly to who he was addressing.
Nietzsche was not speaking to people who already had a viable moral code.
He was speaking to nihilists, who had abandoned any concept or need for morality in the first.
What he was telling them was that even without any divine element there is in fact an objective morality, and even more, that it is the objectively superior choice to choose to live as a creative person, not as a victim, victimizer, or nihilistic wastrel.
So yes, in fact, morality exists, even if we are just a bunch of random electron and chemicals.
And yes, in fact, it is logical to choose to be moral, even if we are just a bunch of random electrons and chemicals.
LOL! That was a good one!
Islam is a religion of Infinite Wisdom, Knowledge,Will and Power of Mercy and Beneficence of Love and Compassion…….And If you don't believe this Jihadists will come and kill you and everyone you cherish……..I think I'll stick with JC.
glad you enjoyed it.
BTW, am I the only one who bursts out laughing when the walking piles of human feces known as muslims always pretend to be so pious when they say 'peace be upon him' every time they mention their dickhead prophet's name?
" we will kill you and slit your throats and spill the blood all over your children's toys because that is mohamed's (peace be upon him) wish."
I thought the point of the bear suit, etc, was to show how little it takes to rile up the muslim community. They went as light as they possibly could and that just wasn't good enough. Which was their point.
Having Buddha snorting coke while they tried justifying Moe in a bear suit was sort of driving this point home.
Thanks man. Totally agree on islam not dictating TV. It should be based on quality.
Shouldn't there come a time when everyone says, "this is SO lame that we all blush at the idea that anyone finds this funny. Let us cancel this program for the good of mankind."?? I think so. I think the time has come for southpark. They had their chance. They failed. The show is really lame. Admit it.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
There is an ironic element to this. The prohibitions against depicting Muhammed (and every other living being for that matter) in artwork had to do with idolatry. The pre-Islamic arab religions generally involved some form of object worship. It was believed that depicting him in art would result in worship of the art, rather than God. To a certain extent, this has been bourne out. The idea that every copy of the Koran is inviolable is a form of idolatry, as are the common displays of clerics' faces in arab politics.
No fan of Southpark could seriously dispute that it displays a "blatent and general disregard for religion." The problem lies in its application. If the photos had been of George Tiller, rather than of Theo Van Gogh, would they have reacted the same way? I suspect not.
What is logic? A bubble in a pile of cells? A chemical? A neuron firing? Who cares? It is a collection of matter that exists on a distant planet that orbits a distant star in one of billions of galaxies. It 100 years, other electrons will bubble in other ways. Who gives a damn?
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
sorry for the spelling errors. I have had a couple too many glasses of wine tonight. Last sentence should say, "In 100 years, other neurons will fire in other ways."
Mmm. I sort of agree with you. But isn't that fatalism sort of? Does Peter tell us to be prepared to give a defense?
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
*SIGH*
"What is logic? A bunch of priests telling you to obey them and receive eternal reward, or oppose them and receive eternal punishment, with proof in a book written by themselves that they assure you contains the commands of the eternal being, that otherwise can not be demonstrated to exist, but who they assure you has put those very priests in charge?"
Indeed, in the face of that, someone could easily choose the nihilism you just defined.
Or someone could choose to be moral anyway, particularly because of the personal benefits.
I know what I choose.
I read Nietzsche and I know what he chose.
In the interest of fairness, Matt and Trey should do an episode where Jesus, Moses and Muhammad engage in a homosexual 3-way.
"You are asking a Spanish Peseant to condemn the Inquisition during the height of its power.. "
I have to disagree with your analogy here. The Spanish peasant was most likely illiterate, uneducated, and ignorant of anything happening outside of his or her village. Not exactly the case in Beirut, Kabul, Tehran, or, to be honest, most places on earth anymore.
I would argue that the religion is not as important as the hatred focused against the United States.
Often they make strong libertarian arguments in the guise of offensive foul mouthed "kids".
Many episodes have supported free market principals, have absolutely bashed the hypocrisy of Hollywood and many center right causes. Some are down right classic lessons in how American works and how liberalism is a failure.
The "Smug" episode about hybrid cars is CLASSIC. Too funny.
South Park tries to offend EVERYONE…there is a disclaimer before EVERY episode…so if you're being offended, you obviously are watching…and they TOLD you not to…
Mohammed wasn't in the Bear suit…Santa Claus was…among the most glaring mistakes the Jihadists have made…
And no matter what, they're still offended…so, to my way of thinking, why worry about it at all…??
But the minute they ACT on it…they should be introduced to Paradise by the most heinous and violent, most demeaning and unclean means as immediately available…
No, I get your point quite clearly.
You believe you can somehow "prove" the superiority of your choice of faith in some external foundation.
You are wrong.
What you fail to understand is that you may not have any option but to trust those neurons you are so dismissive of. Especially when one lives in a world where all foundations of morality are systematically attacked and broken down, one must find some internal reason to continue to choose to be moral.
What do you think Nietzsche meant when he warned of the dangers of looking into the abyss?
Or, as I noted, one can simply choose to surrender to nihilism, which you continue to prescribe as your only other "choice".
Of course, I am not an atheist, or an agnostic. Deist is vaguely close, though I am definitely not a Christian. And with all of that I have absolutely no problem in trusting my "bubbling pile of neurons", my "collection of matter", that logically considers my options, and reasons that the most beneficial choice is to be moral.
MerryJ1
IMHO, by far this is the best post I've read since reading/contributing all the posts related to the CC issue. My sincerest compliments and respect for your words of wisdom.
I trust my neurons because I believe God made them. I believe he designed them to fire just the way he planned. I believe in something called logic because I believe that God is logical and gave me chemicals to reflect this attribute. I believe in beauty because I believe God gave us beauty.
I don't believe we are a pile of neurons and chemicals on a distant planet orbiting a distant star in a distant galaxy. I believe we are made in God's image.
When I have fun, play cards, drink wine, and argue I believe real things are happening. Life with God is a lot funner than life with nothing.
Thanks for the conversation my friend.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
That is a reason for choosing faith over atheism.
It is not however a reason for choosing morality over amorality, immorality, or nihilism, particularly in the absence of faith.
There is a very significant difference between the two choices.
As it happens, I choose faith for the same reason I choose morality – that it is indeed a lot more enjoyable that way. But I choose both separately and distinctly on their own merits.
As I said, it is reasonable to reject Nietzsche because of his opposition to religion.
It is unreasonable to reject him being a nihilist, a National Socialist (or other flavor of Marxist), an anti-Semite, or anything similar, all ideologies which he vehemently rejected.
Muslims discriminate against women and non-muslims and violate our civil rights.
That's what I'm screamin!!!! Good call.
You are so right. The Dems are playing with fire placating these morons. Unfortunately they probably won't be the ones getting burned by their own PC stupidity.
lighten up Vida, you sound like the facists that are the issue here.
The irony I have recently recognized is that Franklin Grahmn gets demonized and his invitation to speak at the Pentagon on the national day of prayer because he describes the teachings of Islam evil and uses specific examples to prove it. While we, as a country, are still waiting to discover why a muslim killed on our own military base at Fort Hood, Nothing is demonstrated by the mainstream media nor has there been any effort by our federal government to prosecute the people who threaten free speech. To the contrary, I see our government masking the the muslim movement in this country.
If I understand correctly – and if I'm wrong, I'll admit it – it's against the Koran to speak out against another Muslim, so any Muslim who speaks out is an infidel and therefore also subject to a death sentence…which makes it awfully easy for the extremists, doesn't it?
[...] » When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? – Big Journalism [...]
When the news broke that the Pentagon had disinvited Franklin Graham from the Day Of Prayer, I said out loud, "That is exactly the kind of p.c. crap that got people killed at Fort Hood."
I saw we identify the Islamic people who say they want to kill offenders of their faith who law enforcement says are legitimate dangers to society, and put a bounty on their heads like rabid animals and shoot them. Should a country's government get in the act and willy nilly state they need to kill infidels sullying the name of Muhammad in the U.S., I say will warn then and if they keep it up, we nuke them. The ones left will get the message. You keep your religious rules to yourself. We are a free country. You screw with us. We nuke you.
I'm dead serious. This is no joke.
at least these muslim fanatics admitted that when they put their whining diatribe up on their web sites, that at least one among them would probably be inspired to ‘off’ the south park creators. and yes i noticed the silence from the supposed moderate muslims. yet we get sarah palin, good christian woman that she is, twittering maps with bull’s eyes on politician’s homes, and encouraging her fanatic base to reload. but that is all ok cause of course she didnt really mean she wanted politicians to be shot nor did she intend to incite any fanatics in her audience to shoot politicians. but mostly she assured us that there are no zealots, religious or otherwise, among her base that could possibly be fanatical enough to ever consider killing politicians or anyone else for that matter. i also noted the vast christian silence over the homicidal rantings of ayatollah sarah. face it people at its core, most any flavor religion is hate and prejudice made divine.
hugh
[...] » When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? – Big Journalism [...]
Ah, you are still missing my point. It is not about whether priests can tell me what is right or wrong. My point is whether I should trust the bubbling pile of neurons at all. Our brains, in the scientific materialist worlview, are not actually brains. They are a collection of matter. We believe that logic is important. But that is because the chemicals in our head tell us to think that. Who trusts chemicals anyway? You and I talking? Like Pepsi and Mountain Dew bubbling on a floor next to each other. No one looks at the swirling mess and says, "who is winning".
There has to be a foundation for knowledge/logic/morals etc. Christians say that foundation is the divine. Aristotle believed in the 'first heaven'. But there has to be something other. If it is just this world, eveything loses its meaning. We can't even discuss things. Or we are just pepsi and mountain dew.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
Responsible American Muslims, like Maj. Nidal Hassan? From what I hear, he was as patriotic as any Muslim American. Or would you be referring to the folk at CAIR? I'm sure they're responsible, liberty-loving Muslim Americans. Even the Muslim Brotherhood. Surely they would take a stand against this sort of religious extremism, after all, it so tarnishes the image of Islam that moderate Muslims like Muzzammil Hassan has gone to great lengths to repair.
If there is such a thing as Moderate Islam, then it's standing on the sidelines laughing its head off while America throws punches at itself in some kind of sickening politically correct bid for repentance for hurting the feelings of terrorists. And if it's doing that, then it's not exactly moderate, is it. Sure, I have non-violent Muslim friends too, and the reason they're not violent is because they don't practice Islam.
Islam is a faith of submission not freedom. To think otherwise is to miss the entire point. Muslims are not allowed to criticize their faith or they face being ostracized. And possibly killed. A daughter who disobeys her father is murdered by that father in the name of Islam. This happens in the United States not just Iran or Iraq. There is no dialogue here. There is no compromise.
Amen to that, Bud.
Good point here. That is a fact.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
People keep refering to Islam as a "religion". It is much more than that. It is a social, economic, cultural, military and religious system. It seeks to dominate every aspect of your life. It tells you what you can wear, eat, read, listen to and watch. It prescribes how you treat your family, especially your wife who is not your partner, but your property. It tells you how you are to treat those who do not believe in Islam. Lying and deception are perfectly OK as long as it furthers the cause of Islam. With Islam, the end always justifies the means. It is not "religion" in the purest sense and therefore cannot be compared to all the other great religions of the world, who for the most part preach peace and tolerence.
Just what Catholics do you mean?
[...] via » When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? – Big Journalism. [...]
Upset is one thing…I am upset by NM drivers that won't use their turn signal because they think they get charged by the blink…
Offended is when some pissant group of religious fanatics thinks they can push around 300+ MILLION people because of a cartoon, and a crappily animated one, at that…that is what offensive is…
The Bible is a narative and the Koran is an instuction manual. What's so difficult to understand?
it's funny muslims can threaten the creators of south park with death and law enforcement says theree's nothing we can do until someone shows up dead. The Left followed up on thier threats (Ken Gladney,and Allee Bautsch) and nothing seems to be happening. But go out and protest at a Tea Party and your labeled a racist sexist homophobe and the DHS opens a file on you.
"they are taking a direct literal interpretation of their Holy Book, and following it."
If anyone has ever read the koran, they would see that it is all about the domination and conversion of the infidels by any means necessary. So, for any liberals who might be troling about, you and I are the Infidels. You are to be converted or destroyed. As far as "moderate" muslims are concerned, this is called strategy. When your enemy (us) is too powerful to destroy, you infiltrate and destroy from the inside. In the end their goal is the same, it's just that "moderates" have more patience.
Until all muslims step up and put down these animals yourselves, you are showing your true colors.
I don't disagree with your explanation. It reads like a documentary on animal life. Very objective. Why isn't the religeous right afforded the same objectivity since they are about .001% as dangerous as these folks?
Sharia Law is NOT Religion and should not be treated and protected as such under our laws and Constitution.. It's ( defacto )to take over our and all governments of the world hence an ENEMY of people.
I don't believe in any God, but I can say without any thought at all that I would rather live in a country with laws based on JC then a country with laws based on Mo and his little death cult.
Truer words have never been spoken.
He meant Holdeman Mennonites.
Key word: "Right"
Just even being connected to the right in any way, shape, or form means that you've given up the notion that you will be treated civil.
No, that time will never come. Until millions of people stop watching Southpark, it will be there to annoy you in all it's glory.
Just because you think it's lame doesn't mean others do. I find it rather entertaining. And Comedy Central makes $$$ off of it, so it will continue to air.
I know you judge me based on my TV habits, which is rather expected of someone who has a blog that specifically lays out your judgements on religion.
Judge not, lest you be judged.
ManBearPig will live on forever.
And I still can't stop laughing of their takedown of Mel Gibson.
No, he is using the word "suck" instead of just flat out saying he wants it off the air because he disagrees with its premise.
True, but then the victim will be blamed for their own murder for 'offending' the poor muslim.
I think the body count of Muslims in Iraq from al qeadea in Iraq, and the body count of Muslims by the Taliban in Afghanistan more than demonstrate fanatical Muslim's respect for Islamic law.
I've been hearing this clap trap since 9/11 when Islamic groups insisted since there were Muslim victims in the WTC it couldn't possibly be Muslims who did it, because its against Islamic law for a Muslim to kill another Muslim.
There is a difference between viewing a work of art and worshiping an idol.
Agreed. I think their main point was to highlight the total ludicrous of an outright ban. I didn't see the program, but I read some where it wasn't even Mohamed in the bear suit, but Santa Claus.
The punch line being, you can't even have Santa in a bear suit if you allude that it might be Mohamed.
Agreed 100%. Where's the FBI knocking down their doors?
Some middle aged mother of four holds up a sign saying taxes are too high and spending out of control, and they're front page news about how dangerous they are.
But allude to outright murder, nothing but crickets.
That was the point. Just discussing the matter, with no depiction is enough to solicit death threats.
They discriminate against anyone and anything that gets in their way.
My point is I do not need to defend My God. He can take care of himself and me. Many muslims feel like they have to defend their religion, because their religion has no power. If southpark insults my Lord and Savior, they will answer when they meet him, I do not have to go out and take revenge out upon them. If muslims felt like their religion was real and that their god was real, then why do they have to do all the fighting for their god? Their god has no arms. I do not understand your comment about fatalism, nor do I give any defense when I praise my God.
Hey everybody, I just saw a dog turd with a remarkable resemblance to Muhammed. Time for a jihad on all dogs. Death to pooches everywhere!
I completely agree. If you don't like it, turn it off, like the rest of us do. Come check us out athttp://www.LibertyJuice.com !
You're alright by me Mate. Glad to know you.
WHOA!!! Nice to see you, CH!
I completely agree. If you don't like it, turn it off, like the rest of us do. Come check us out athttp://www.LibertyJuice.com !
Like I said, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong…and if so, I'll 'fess up to it.
You and I have nothing in common. Nothing.
Yeah……The show sucks. Millions of people buy Britney Spears crap too.
You misunderstand on the 'judge not' thing. It doesn't mean we should have no judgement on religion (because the rest of the bible is an instruction book on how and when to judge). It means that the way that we judge others should be the way we want to be judged. I believe that I am judging religion fairly. I may be wrong on some things, but I am trying to be fair and correct. I want to be judge fairly so that is how I judge. That is what that line from the bible means.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
What premise is that? The premise that bad humor makes money for uncreative people? You are right. – I disagree with that premise.
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
Jesus has done just fine in SOUTH PARK, despite all the hearsay and aghast rumors. SOUTH PARK evicerates hypocrisy, and religion, managed by fallable man, is full of it, as Jesus himself spent much time rebuking people and priests for. So, despite the surface shocking, jaw-dropping concept of say, Jesus Vs the Devil fight, the point made in that episode was brilliant.
Jesus comes out quite unscathed in these episodes, out of the wreckage, able to shrug off even the worst offenses, and by that, illustrating a cosmic Truth.. But SOUTH PARK has proved that, like the media elite, the Hollywood glitterati, the narcisstic trendy cultists, Mohammed and Islam is brittle, his followers fundamentally insecure, so nothing is allowed, all questioning, all criticism is attacked, not permitted.
It failed with you, but not with a larger audience. Personally, I think every show on network TV minus possibly V is lame and a failure, but obviously, most of the country disagrees with me. Thus, some of those IMO horrid shows are on ten, eleven, twelve seasons or more.
Just because you think the show is lame and awful is no reason to cancel it unless enough other people think like you do to drive its audience share down.
Sorry, got my religions crossed. I did mean Holdermen Mennonites.
The principle is similar. Holdermans (or at least the ones in my area) did not even take personal pictures considering them to be graven images.
What about Lost? You rank V above lost? Really?
http://religionannarbor.wordpress.com/ .
Thanks. Same here. Always good to see a Texas neighbor speaking wisdom and truth.
If you can not identify the enemy or rather, even breath its name, you can not defeat them. You can not win a war this way. God save us from Cultural Marxism(P.C.)!
This sounds harsh. It was a joke (I was referencing my above comment about having nothing in common).
[...] » When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? – Big Journalism [...]
Amen, and Thanks.
The premise that it's bad humor that makes money for uncreative people.
I happen to believe it's good humor that makes money for very creative people. You simply don't like the show, and believe that even though it is a money-maker for Comedy Central and millions of people around the world watch the show, it should still be removed from the airwaves. Again, simply because your ass is so tight you could turn coal into diamonds.
[...] » When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? – Big Journalism [...]
[...] » When Religion Meets Free Expression, What Gives? – Big Journalism [...]
[...] mistake, this New York Times piece has it right… this is the front line of a cultural war. This writer nails it: It is clear that the Revolution Muslim group isn’t really focused on South Park as much [...]
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