On July 11, the Boston Globe featured a story on “facts” and how people just don’t seem to want to hear them when they intersect with closely held political opinions. The story has some interesting points to make, points that seem quite sensible, but there is no escaping the fact that the whole story is not only written from a left-wing perspective but is misleading in a central reality that is wholly ignored by the piece.

For the Globe, writer Joe Keohane laments that people with preconceived political opinions rarely have their minds changed when presented with facts contrary to what they imagine is true. “Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds,” says Koehane. He concludes that “this bodes ill for a democracy” because voters are making decisions based on willful misconceptions.
They already have beliefs, and a set of facts lodged in their minds. The problem is that sometimes the things they think they know are objectively, provably false. And in the presence of the correct information, such people react very, very differently than the merely uninformed. Instead of changing their minds to reflect the correct information, they can entrench themselves even deeper.
Koehane goes on to quote researchers that have found that people don’t like to be confronted with how wrong they are and when facts contrary to their beliefs come up they often dismiss them out of hand whether true or not. In this way people don’t have to face up to truth when they are wrong.
“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
Koehane reports that “belief” sometimes trumps truth but this all seems to be obvious in human nature. Some may recall one of the running jokes in the old TV sitcom “Happy Days” was when the Fonz couldn’t admit he was wrong about something. “I’m wrrrroo… I’m wrrooon…,” he’d stammer. While funny, this is a pretty normal example of human nature. We’ve all come across a friend, co-worker, or family member that will simply never admit they are wrong no matter how much truth and reality they are confronted with.
Koehane points to this obvious little bit of human nature as something that opens a “long-running argument about the political ignorance of American citizens to broader questions about the interplay between the nature of human intelligence and our democratic ideals.” It demolishes a conceit that our political opinions are formed over time by “careful, rational consideration of facts,” Kohane says.
Naturally the only examples that Koehane can find of this ignorance of the facts are ones that make folks on the right side of the aisle look the political boobs. He cites a study by the University of Illinois about the misunderstood number of blacks on welfare, and he cites another study that disproved some of the “misinformation” surrounding the Iraq war believed by conservatives.
Koehane has a major disconnect in his piece, however. While it is true that many partisans on both sides are misinformed about some particular facts, and sometimes willfully so, there is a reason above and beyond mere individual facts that they are partisans and that goes to core philosophy.
The core philosophy of a conservative, for instance, is to have less government, little welfare, and strong national defense while the core liberal philosophy is precisely the opposite. The fact is that in general, Republicans exhibit conservative leanings while Democrats exhibit liberal ones. Certainly there are individual Republicans that are just as liberal as Democrats and certain Democrats that are quite conservative, but the establishments of the two parties are not nearly as mushy.
So, when people are confronted with a Republican that wants big government as an individual he is dismissed as an aberration and the same happens to liberals that are confronted with a conservative Democrat. This is because the “fact” that there are “some” Democrats that are conservative and some Republicans that are liberal doesn’t matter in the greater scheme. The ultimate party goal is the real political reality, not the individual actions of individual recalcitrant politicians or single odd-man-out laws or policy decisions.
Writer Koehane, however, seems to think that a <i>mere</i> fact should completely upend a person’s core philosophy. Let’s use his misleading “no WMDs in Iraq” fact, for instance. Because no WMDs were found in Iraq, Koehane seems to infer that the Iraq war was obviously illicit.
But Koehane’s mere fact is misleading. In the first place, looking or WMDs was just one entry on a list of reasons the Bush administration presented to justify the invasion. Secondly, the mere fact that no WMDs were found spread across Iraq is meaningless when juxtaposed with the fact that the intelligence services of every other nation on earth independently believed that Saddam DID have such stockpiles. It wasn’t just a Bush claim, but a belief held by every nation that we consulted with prior to the war. The fact is that Bush’s belief in Saddam’s WMDs coincided with the same belief held by every other nation.
The truth of the matter is that Saddam fooled the world because his nation was a police state within which no freedom of information was extent. He was able to put up a false front making the world think he was stronger than he was. So that he ended up not having great stockpiles of WMDs (though there were a few small stockpiles) is not a meaningful fact when assessing if the reasons we went to war were justifiable at the time we went to war. Bush may have been wrong about WMDs but his belief they existed before the invasion doesn’t make of him a liar — it just makes him wrong.
Writer Koehane has some interesting points to make in his piece, granted. But his partisan examples and his refusal to take core political philosophy into consideration itself causes readers to be misled by his article. Sadly, Koehane does not help solve the “facts” problem in America with his piece. He only makes matters worse.






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61 Comments
"They already have beliefs, and a set of facts lodged in their minds"
How can anyone take you seriously, Joe Keohane. First, you lump beliefs and facts together, but facts are not beliefs (though the latter can be founded on the former) and they aren't fungible. Facts are facts.
Second, no one can take you seriously because you are a Boston Lefty who broaches no differing thoughts or concepts. You simply parrot the souless lunacy of Marx and Engles and Garafolo.
They always conveniently forget that Saddam used WMDs — against the Kurds, who were his own countrymen. That's a fact.
i was having a conversation with some democrats at the local watering hole yesterday, and i agree with the idea of people not liking the truth. so after wasting time with facts, the button was hit when i just told them as democrats they were not allowed to think for themself. wow, did i hit the target right on the head, they went off, but again when presented with facts, they were surprised, and angered. i told them how that black woman was running right here in will country, and the democrats took her off the ballot, they were in disbelief. then i said to look it up, and try to blame the republicans for this. they didn't like facts of thier own party screwing one of thier own. i could see thier beer flattening right in thier stomach.
Peeteee363, I'm in Lombard (DuPage County), and my son's in Brookfield (Cook), but we'd both like to see Cedra Crenshaw win this battle to make sure she's on the November ballot. Are you involved in this, or do you know who is?
Ideally, I'd like to see the Dem officials responsible for this farce face a grand jury, followed by about one year and one day of balogne sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner while lounging around in orange jumpsuits, but I'd settle for seeing them taken out of office.
Many of these liberals assume that because they have respectable, even high, IQ scores, (and many of them do, some very high), that their political (and religious, which often translates to anti-religious) views are and must be correct (as in, pick your own "If A = X, and if A believes Y, then Y = X" while ignoring any/all variables).
But emotional limitations inhibit practical application of intelligence, and I think (all anecdotal evidence, so I can't prove it) that the same thing happens in political debates with (many) liberals, that often happens in religious discussions with atheists, or possibly any topical area in which at least one side is emotionally vested. In liberal political "vestment," there often seems to be some sort of belief or feelings of associative exceptionality tied into the ideology, making it personally threatening to objectively evaluate basic liberal beliefs.
Again, I can't prove it, but it does make sense to me.
I understand the point of the piece but I feel it misses one key issue, the trust in the messenger. All the correct facts in world will not change a persons view, if the person or organization providing the 'facts' has a credability issue. This is what we're seeing today in the MSM. Pretty much eveyone knows the MSM message is unreliable, so even if the do report fact why should we believe them? Hence our opinion is not changed by facts. The MSM have lost their influence and they only have themselves to blame.
well, i am hoping she will run a write in campaign. there is more than one way to throw a dem out of office. i do realize write in's are more difficult to do, but this isn't your typical election season. i am in will county, and i find it repulsive cook county crooks are pulling strings here, or allowed to.
they also forget he was locking his radar on our jets flying the un mission of the no fly zones.
Absolutely right. In AGW, for example, the CRU crew provided "facts" all the time. Unfortunately, to get those "facts" they altered data, suppressed contrary viewpoints from publishing and even contradicted what they were telling the public when they thought they would only writing to each other.
The modern world is so complex, and the news media so corrupt, that one man's "FACT" is another man's lie or half truth. What the original article is really about is convincing leftists, who are more stubborn and religious about their beliefs than conservatives to ignor the opposition and just go ahead and "do the right thing".
I think the biggest problem that we have when trying to have a reasonable discussion with liberals is that their political beliefs are something that they have invested their entire lives in. Most of them have been lefties their entire lives – which means that, when presented with facts and evidence that disprove their theories, it isn't an "I'm wrong" moment. This instead shakes the foundations of their entire world. It is far easier for them to simply believe they we are wrong, our facts can't possibly be true, and that we are stupid for believing ourselves.
This is what happens when political and cultural ideology replace religion.
Here's a fact: Marxist/Liberal/Statist/Leftist policies DO NOT work.
The "facts" hit you people upside the head every friggin' day,
with very little actual impact in the "altering your opinion" department..
Michael Rivero Quote
"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."
Oh, I am SO borrowing this and posting it as my FB status. Thanks, actsnow.
This is my "set" quote on my Facebook wall (on my profile):
"Most people want someone to follow and someone to blame for their problems. Accuracy is optional."
If I understand it correctly, it sounds as though Will County (Democrats) crooks collaborated with Cook County crooks on this one
There's been quite a bit of discussion about it on WLS-AM (890 on the radio dial, and Ms. Crenshaw has been interviewed by Cisco Codo (9 am – 11 am weekdays) and I think but am not sure, by Don Wade and Roma (5 am – 9 am weekdays).
The Cook County machine was so troublesome in my Congressional District (Rep. Roskam, Henry Hyde's old District), that when Rahm Emanuel was named WH Chief of Staff following the 2008 election, I called Congressman Roskam's office to express congratulations for both, winning the election and getting rid of Rahm. They (Cook County Democrats) do play dirty!
"This is what happens when political and cultural ideology replace religion"
Great point! Very true!
"He cites a study by the University of Illinois about the misunderstood number of blacks on welfare,"
This seems like a good example to me , since on just about every story on these Breitbart sites involving black people welfare is brought up in the comments section. Clearly there is an obsessive link in the conservative mind between blacks and welfare.
He would have been much better off truly balanced with the WMD thought-experiment if he stated that the fact that there were no appreciable WMDs in Iraq caused some with one set of closely-help opinions to scream "LIAR" because that reinforces their opinion, and others with another to shrug their shoulders and say. "He was incorrect, but nobody knew the truth".
There's more of this behavior on the left than the right, I must say. Confront your favorite liberal about the housing meltdown and give him the facts about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Dodd, and Frank, and even GWB, and they will ignore it all and blame it all on the evil greedy banks and the "policies of the last 8 years" – mostly because he's been taught to hate them and Republicans reflexively. No thought required.
it is SOOOO true,I post this quote everywhere,everytime I post it at yahoo they delete it,we are so in trouble in this country.
Well I'm on the left , and I didn't think Saddam had WMDs ,I didn't think he was a direct threat to America , I didn't think Iraq had anything to do with 911 , I didn't think the war was well planned , I didn't think the war would "pay for itself" through oil money , and I thought it would be a huge waste of lives , money and time for the US.
As far as I can see I was right on all counts.
Yep. And palmtree the puppet is regurgitating all those talking points as this discussion continues. A perfect example of the convenience of selective logic.
You are all basing your responses on a journalist's interpretation of a work of scholarship.
Here is the original study: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bnyhan/nyhan-reifl...
The study does, in fact, include a corresponding 'liberal' topic with similar results. A certain percentage of people who believed Bush had enacted a ban on embryonic stem cell research did not change their minds when presented with a correction.
This research is important and it is depressing to see it bashed because it is perceived as an attack on one's own ideology.
As for the claim that the world was in a consensus about Iraq's supposed WMDs:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/06/al...
Here is a good place to start. You may not be fond of the publication but the article includes plenty of sources for you to research on your own. In summary: There was no WMD consensus in the world, among traditional US allies, or within the US intelligence establishment.
Yahoo deletes it?? What the heck??
??? Well, OK. My entire comment was "Kudos, Foamy7, what a neat and descriptive phrase." But, OK,
Since we knew Saddam (a) did have WMDs and had used them on the Kurds; and (b) every intelligence outfit in the world believed he had WMDs; and (c) Saddam himself had kept Iraq-WMD stories front and center to intimidate Iran and other area neighbors — that argument is moot.
No one thought Iraq a "direct threat" to America or involved with 9/11; the threat was from Saddam's refusal to abide by UN Resolutions, his firing at US military aircraft in 'safe' zones, and his growing alliances with al Queda and their presence in Iraq. There was nothing wrong with the "war planning" for Iraq, the problem was with civilian oversight: Saddam released all criminal prisoners when the invasion began, and they were looting and pillaging everything in sight. Brennan enforced a "hands off" policy, which put Iraqi citizens at the mercy of criminals and looters.
The dual statemnts – that you're "on the left" and believe yourself "right on all counts" illustrates the point the author was making.
Reality is still reality,whether one believes it or not,those who live with their heads stuck in the sand have a harder time when the world crashes in on them,for me and my house I like being informed and ready,come what may.
Us, too. We've been researching getting off the grid, and we're developing a plan to do so. Just in case. Hopefully, our government/country/society won't collapse, but if it does, I want to be ready. I'm actually an optimist, but I'm also a realist.
Please cite examples and post them here but quote the examples fully with the screen names and not out of context if you expect your statement to be taken seriously.
No, there is not. I try and shut up local morons in my 99.9% white or hispanic area whenever they spout "blacks on welfare" nonsense. I see it in our local paper all the time. I just respond by telling them to take a field trip to the local public assistance office and see who is in the waiting area. Skads of multi-generational white welfare queens………. and not a Black person in sight. Oddly enough, they rarely respond to my challenge beyond calling me a "typical liberal" , which anyone who knows me would consider laughable as I am staunchly conservative and a long time registered Independent. I will say that these types are rare here and easily spotted. Just need to know the dead givaway words and phrases. Most, I have noticed, will reveal themselves by singling out other people and groups as well as Blacks, with catchy phrases like "Jew Bankers" and "Followers of Rome", straight out of the Stormfront manual for proper attention getting ranting and raving. Problem is, it only takes one in a crowd of hundreds or thousands of us to make all conservatives look bad. They are the exception rather than the rule, but they do much damage.
No, there isn't an "obsessive link" in our minds concerning blacks and welfare. I, for one, live in northern Wisconsin, where blacks are the 4th largest segment of the population, behind whites, Hmong, and Native Americans. Anybody that cares enough to look into these kinds of things could tell you that the population segment that comprises the largest percentage of aid recipients would be whites, which is perfectly in line with expectations.
Now, what I really dislike is when misinformed people such as yourself attempt to perpetuate the misconception that conservatives are, by default, racist. Your belief in this misconception merely shows that you, sir, are a bigot.
"This research is important and it is depressing to see it bashed because it is perceived as an attack on one's own ideology."
Show me anything on this page that is bashing the research. After rereading all of the comments, it would seem to me that pretty much everyone here agrees with the research. We just lack any kind of respect for Joe Keohane and his article on the research.
And, again, if you would simply read the comments, you would see that we are not perceiving the research as an attack on out ideology. Rather, we are celebrating the research as a vindication of how we view the typical liberal.
I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve with this post, but whatever it was, you only succeeded in making yourself look bad.
Just FYI, the link isn't working. I was going to look at it, but it never loaded. Fix it and I will read it.
EDIT – The problem isn't with the link. The issue seems to be with the website.
What you are putting forth Mr. Huston in your very fine article is the basic premise of The Big Lie.
I think what you wrote here is a critical narrative that goes a long way towards exposing the pablum and misdirection of the ruling class and their lap dogs of the broke down old press.
The Truth.
At every opportunity the truth must be presented. In every instance the Truth given, clearly calmly and succinctly.
For instance, this here piece, it takes a circuitous route, understandably, to get to the truth behind the lie, but that is just fine, because in a profound way the truth sets people free. And that is what matters most. Because people have an amazing ability to think for themselves, regardless what ruling class propaganda like what the Boston Glob spews forth that us savages, bible and gun clinging unwashed masses are not capable of grasping the finer points of bullshit.
It loads fine for me. I will try to find some other sources later. The belief that WMDs were found in Iraq and that Saddam had connections to Al-Qaeda was and is widespread in America and strongly correlated with support for the invasion and occupation. These beliefs are false according to all available evidence so it is worth pondering why they persist.
Isn't the Center for American Progress one of George Soros' investments?
so you have turned you obama defender skills to attacks on American facts…………and then quote such sources as…………….all the liberal/radical/hate America sites that like to make it all up to fit their stories – kind of like with the truther's facts
good job on the left……….as passed on by the obama media
MyKu:
The Left treasures facts
about as much as "Rocking"
the G.O.P. vote.
This is the power of the media. It is their eternal quest to make what is quite clearly far-left seem to be "moderate". Even if they don't accomplish that, they still "win" when they manage to drag the spectrum of ideas over a slot or two (what memo did I miss declaring that Health Care is a "right"?).
No surprise that this article unnecessarily took on a leftist slant. But this is the reality in which they live. Sad, really.
I personally struggled with the no WMDs issue in Iraq myself. The whole "Bush lied people died" (gosh the libs thought they were clever with that one) didn't make sense to me. If Bush knew there were no WMDs why did he make the case for them? Didn't he know it would be a huge embarrassment when none were found? Didn't he want to be re-elected? If he was as stupid as liberals say, wouldn't Karl Rove and Dick Cheney straight him out? They were supposed to be the evil geniuses. Too many unanswered questions – Bush had to believe there were WMDs in Iraq.
But if there were no WMDs why didn't Sadam just let the inspectors inspect? Why provoke a fight you can't win? Neither scenario made sense.
Then I heard of George Piro. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLhU-4WsMI&fe... Joe Keohane has never heard of George Piro. If he had he would never use the Iraq WMD situation as an example of "truth". You see, George Piro was Sadam's FBI interrogator. Being of Assyrian/Lebanese decent and speaking fluent Arabic, Mr. Piro gained a degree of Sadam's confidence and Sadam admitted to Piro that there were no WMDs but that he had wanted America to believe there were because he was not afraid of us, he was afraid of Iran. And if we believed he had WMDs then Iran would believe it too. Sure, he thought we'd bomb him for a couple of days but he'd hide in his bunker and come out stronger than ever. Finally a scenario in which there never were WMDs made sense. Nearly thirty years of high-tailing out of war zones had taken their toll on the reputation of the US war machine.
Now truth can be a tricky thing. If I told you that jumping off the Empire State Building would result in your death, only a complete lunatic would doubt the truth in what I say. On the other hand if I tried to tell you how animals evolved 100 million years ago or the structure of the universe 10 billion years ago, the certainty of truth would be nowhere near that of gravity. It's relative.
That these beliefs are "false according to all available evidence," is itself a false statement. There are numerous journalistic articles which reasonably document connections between Saddam and Al-Queda via Oil-For-Food, and that Al-Queda was running a proxy war against the Kurds at Saddams' behest. The problem is that the MSM narrative dictates that there was no connection, so the attention which could have been paid to these claims hasn't been.
As I remember from the cease fire agreement from the first Gulf War, Saddam's regime was to have NO WMD's. That means none at all. Just as he fired one SCUD missle at the beginning of hostilities. He was supposed to have NO mid-range weapons as well. The war was totally justified.
Keep in mind Joe Keohane runs in Liberal Circle and then you will understand why he thinks thats how all people are. We all know liberals really are immune to facts and reality they will insist they are right despite all the evidence in the world. In reality most conservatives seek the truth because part of being a conservative ideology is to be on the right side of each issue so we do not dilute ourselves by only seeking information that reinforces our point lik liberals. We want all the evidence so our decision is based on fact not idiology. Remeber even the studies he refers to that he uses to reinforce his theory that people ignore facts that prove them wrong those studies are likely done on University students who have already been conned by all the leftist professors conducting the studies.
Agreed, I try to do the same be informed get all relavent facts from all sides that is the only way to stand on the side of Truth. However I have to disagree with your quote a little, You can realize your government is lying and corrupt and know there is nothing you can personally do at this time. I don't think you are surrendering your principles. The way I look at it is if anyone government person or not challenges my principles thats when I will make my stand and let the chips fall where they may and beyond that if called on to stand with a group or movement to defend those principles I like to think I will eagerly do it as our founding fathers did for us. risk thier life and treasury for principles. Still it is a good quote to get people to think about where they will draw the line.
George W Bush was kicked out of the Republican party, right? Not elected to be president? 2nd biggest big government proponent in the last 10 years….
It can't be said too many times: The hypocrisy of libturds knows no bounds.
I love your avatar!
250 milion people have died during the 20th century for these liberal utopias whch never seem to work out right for them. The latest being Venezuela.
BUT — Sounds like what happens to the typical liberal when confronted with facts. Things like oh I don't know, something like socialism has failed worldwide anytime it's tried.
Or socialism leads one to guns, gulags and gas chambers.
Those little troublesome facts.
Question! If ARTICLE 2 SECTION 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America, a supreme law of the land, can’t be enforced by any law enforcement official in America then why are other laws enforced in America? Why is it that even when there is an obvious appearance that ARTICLE 2 SECTION 1 has been violated….why is there no investigation? What does this say about America as a whole when the government and the people too are practicing a day by day contemptuous ignorance to the gift that our Founding Fathers gave to us and America? What does this say about America as a whole when people are trying to tell the government that ARTICLE 2 SECTION 1 is in a state of jeopardy and the Government, the Main Stream Media and the Nation as a whole go about acting as if there is nothing wrong and go about the daily routine of business as usual without any care at all for the U.S. Constitution? Have WE THE PEOPLE actually evolved into a nation of ZOMBIES? Have we become so brain dead as a nation that all concern for America’s future has become null and void?
They also forget that Saddam was violating the terms of the ceasefire, and had never signed a peace treaty, with the U.S. Also, Saddam publicly tore up and violating that ceasefire. That meant we were back at war, whether the left or right admitted to that fact.
Saddam was paying suicide bombers to murder Jews in Israel, many of those victims were also American citizens. And don't forget the assassination attempt on Bush 41, which is an act of war as well.
Not only was he afraid of Iran, he was afraid of his own Generals – whom he led to believe, to the bitter end, that he had enough chemical stockpiles to defend Iraq. Had they known the truth, there very well could have been a coup against him. That's one thing he was afraid of.
Robert Gibbs Is Asked About Obama's Connecticut Social Security Number http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Aahw3NT6E
Obama's Social Security Number(s) – Jerome Corsi on the Jeff Kuhner Show – 5/18/10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRt64dO0opE&pl...
"I didn't think Saddam had WMDs" – incorrect -http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334
"I didn't think he was a direct threat to America"- incorrect
"I didn't think Iraq had anything to do with 911"- Neither did Bush :http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm
" I didn't think the war was well planned" – possibly
"I didn't think the war would "pay for itself" through oil money"- Of course not, since we weren't there for oil.
" I thought it would be a huge waste of lives , money and time for the US." – possibly
I love this topic and contemplate it frequently. My take is that there is a spiritual aspect to truth. I believe many people are deceived and thus unable to comprehend truth or acknowledge facts. I love the title of the book Ann's wrote "Godless: The Church of Liberalism" because it pretty much summed up my feelings on this. Many like to joke about Kool-Aid drinkers and yet there is an element of truth there. Consumption of a product that causes mindless devotion to an ideology is not a good thing but is taking place all over the globe. As a Christian I have often wondered how a person like the Anti-Christ would really be possible. Not too long ago the world embraced a leader who is basically a putz and yet he gained tremendous power and influence over millions. That person is no longer held in such high esteem but it demonstrated how one person can certainly show up and potentially change the world as people choose to look away from the facts.
I think once your article quote scott ritter, a guy being paid by the Iraqis for counseling, we should have known what your biased conclusions would have been. Ritter was nothing more than a paid traitor.
The intelligence communities, contrary to the leftist political communities, were pretty much all in agreement about Iraq having WMDs. Hussein himself stated during interrogations that he wanted the west to think that he had WMDS, and he especially wanted Iran to think that he possessed them.
And, more interestingly, your own democrat leadership, including Hillary Clinton, made a repeated and big deal of saying that many other nations intel stated that Iraq had WMDS.
There is little evidence that embryonic stem cell work is more important than many other medical venues. The fact that it harvests parts from disposed human beings is a bit of a moral issue as well.
Here is the problem with blacks and latinos on welfare. The conservative view is not that there are more blacks and latinos on welfare compared to whites. The issue is one of per capita counts. I have been an avid reader of blogs for over ten years. And the consensus view is that blacks and latinos per capita make up a way too large number. Let's take poverty levels as a simple example. Whites have around 12% at poverty levels and blacks have slightly over 30% at poverty levels.
On specific welfare programs blacks receive right around the same amount of welfare as whites, even though whites outnumber blacks by about six hundred percent.
However, a liberal, since they want to misrepresent the truth of issues, will ignore the per capita statistics and instead look at the total numbers, which is just ludicrous.
So, depending on how you present it, you could be truthful in saying that whites receive more welfare than blacks, however, per capita, blacks receive substantially more welfare than do whites, by a very large percentage.
The bulk of the Democrat leadership claimed that Iraq had WMDs. These democrat leaders claimed, at the time at least, that the bulk of non USA intelligence agreed with the idea that Iraq had WMDS. Hussein himself stated later that he wanted the world to think that he was hiding WMDs.
Obviously, if you live in a mostly white area then those on welfare will be mostly white. However, nationally, there are aprx 12% whites below the poverty level and 30% blacks below the poverty level, meaning that blacks are 200 percent more likely to be poor than a white person.
As to actual welfare programs, blacks, per capita, nationally, are more likely to be receiving welfare by an even larger number. But it depends on the program. Some have 40% blacks on the rolls, 39% whites and 21% listed as other.
Yep, which why it's such a good thing that such discussions have no place in federal politics, because the federal gov't should not be funding necessarily non-competitive research programs. That is what private enterprise is for.
I'm quite in favor of research of all kinds, so I was pleased to see GWB inadvertantly take the small-gov't stance of banning FUNDING, thus ensuring the market would solve the problem. And what did it do? It showed alternatives to embryonic cells could be developed! Never would have happened if taxes were paying for the easy road. Banning the technology would have moved it out of the country, with no alternatives found.
No more facts, they want "facts", get the difference?
Yeah and Gore won Florida…until Time suppressed their results, because it didn't fit their preconcieved idea that Bush stole the election.
Geez, I need to be on line more often. I know you are right on the statistics, but I am talking just numbers. How many whites in the U.S. are on welfare, how many minorities. If blacks are still roughly 10% of the population they have to be outdone by whites in sheer numbers. But hey, the problem is anyone who makes leeching off the taxpayers a lifestyle. I doubt blacks even make up 1% of the population here in this N. AZ city. My point is that here I have to deal with some real knuckle dragging racists who blame everyone from jews to catholics to any and all non-white people. They always seem to need someone to blame their own failings on. I swear to God, one actually went on a long rant once about how "at one time we needed immigrants from Northern Europe here". I even got him to admit that he rejected immigrants from non "Northern Europe", places like Italy, Poland, and others because they were mostly Catholic. Hey, remember, Timothy McVeigh spent time and had a lot of friends here in Kingman AZ. Thanks for the discourse. It is always appreciated.
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